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  #31 (permalink)  
Old 03-22-2014, 04:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tresi View Post
while were on the subject oes anyone remember a tool from the 70's and 80's that was use to cut the stud bosses down with a 1/2" drill. What was different about this tool was it piloted off the old pressed in stud. I want to think it was adjustable to where that once it was set the top of the stud bottomed out in the tool when the boss was cut to the correct height. An added advantage was that once the boss was cut the ol stud was easier to pull. Anybody remember this? is this tool still available anywhere?
I remember seeing it, just had to search a little to find it. Google it, 9th entry on the page.

Rocker stud boss cutter - sold by Cylinder Head Supply. Listed under valve guide tools. It's a little pricey if you only do one set of heads - $160 - but if you do a bunch it could pay for itself.

Cylinder Head Supply

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  #32 (permalink)  
Old 03-23-2014, 12:29 PM
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That's not quite what I was remembering but very close. Maybe tI had access to one.
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Old 04-02-2014, 10:19 PM
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ok, I bought the comp tool for the stud bosses. I milled one down. Tossed on this pushrod check tool, as I have the adjustable rod kind and now this plastic checker. So my problem is, the plastic checker is calling for a shorter pushrod. So just for kicks, I put the adjustable pushrod in to the length that the plastic one wants to sit level with the valve. You'd think it was good, but when I put the rocker on, its way off.

Also when using the adjustable pushrod, if its too short when I'm setting up zero lash, and say I try and turn my poly lock as if I was preloading the lifter (I know isn't quite necessary right now) but it bottoms out the lock. When I raise the push rod up a little, I can then turn my poly lock to the 1/2-3/4 turn. So that also tells me, I have to have a longer pushrod than what this plastic one is calling for. Unless I'm doing something wrong. any thoughts.
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  #34 (permalink)  
Old 04-02-2014, 10:38 PM
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Boss does not look milled down enough to me, you don't just want to mill it just enough to make it flat, you have to remove nearly 3/8" of the height from the original as-cast boss.

You remove boss height equal to the length from the bottom of the wrench hex on the stud(where it will tighten against the head) to the point the stud is a straight shank again(about 1/8" or so above the wrench hex on the stud, after the flair down to the hex head ends on the shank).

If you are using guideplates, the boss has to be milled even more to counteract that thickness
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Old 04-02-2014, 10:41 PM
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The final boss height will only be about 1/8" or so higher then the surface the cylinder head bolt next to it tightens down against. (If using guideplates also)
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Old 04-03-2014, 08:13 AM
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thanks for the reply. I milled it down about .250 I'm not using guideplates. I just got a quote on head work of $145, another shop was 250 which is higher than I hoped. But either that or I get a drill press to mill these down so they are all right.

Not to mention I practically ruined the one head since some of the studs are crooked. the other head was fine, so I can't recall what I did as this was a while ago. The summitt tool I have, I noticed has a ton of play in the threads if I put my tap in it and also if I thread a bolt in it, it has some play in it. So rather than risk my other head, I want to just take them to a shop to avoid any more disasters. Once I get a drill press, I'll learn on my other junk heads I have laying around. anyone have any problems with the tapping tool for the studs and doing it by hand?
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  #37 (permalink)  
Old 04-03-2014, 09:18 AM
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99, your posts are a little confusing. You stated you "milled" one boss down in a previous post. How did you go about doing this. Please don't tell me you used a hand drill. What tool did you use. I know people cut these on drill presses but a milling machine or valve seat type machine(Serdi etc.) is the proper way. Set up on a milling machine will take a little more time without a head fixture$$ than a seat cutting machine$$$$$$.
T.J.
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  #38 (permalink)  
Old 04-03-2014, 09:47 AM
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yeah hand drill with the comp cutting tool. that head in the pic is hosed anyway. I'm getting a drill press, trying that same head. If it works I'll do my final head. Or take my good head to the machine shop.

My problems are. 1st and foremost studs in my one head are crooked, other head were fine, don't know why. I used the summit tool to tap the studs. So my plan was to align another head up in a drill press square and level the head, run the tap by hand with the drill press. Also use the drill press to mill down the stud bosses so they are all even and flat.

Problem 2. I milled the one boss down, so I can check the rocker geo. which perhaps I do need to mill down the boss more. I just measured the thickness of the hex which was .250.

I'm not running guide plates. So what I need is both heads milled down, one head tapped and to finalize my pushrod length.
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  #39 (permalink)  
Old 04-03-2014, 10:00 AM
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I just used the summit brand tool yesterday for tapping my studs in my vortec heads. They are all straight and perfect looking. The threads in the tool should be closest to the stud boss. If you have it turned upside down so the threads are furthest away you could be getting more play in the tap to allow it to go crooked. Also when tapping the holes don't use the tap that came in a cheap $25 tap set. Go to the auto parts and get a good tap. Check your tapped holes that you are saying are crooked without the studs torqued down. If your stud bosses aren't milled flat it could be allowing the stud to tweak a little while it's looking for a base to sit on.

I just recently milled the bosses down with a hougan magnetic drill press cutter. It took a while to build a plate for the drill to sit on but after that it was simple to do. With the help of ericanova I ended up with darn near perfect results. I don't think my local shop could've done any better.
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  #40 (permalink)  
Old 04-03-2014, 10:44 AM
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99,To be honest you do not have the proper tools or equipment to mill down the stud bosses and tap the holes for screw in studs properly. I am not knocking you in anyway. I commend your effort. To do this right and save your heads from the scrap pile, bring them to an engine machine shop. The spindle needs to be exactly perpendicular to the stud boss even before thinking of putting a cutter into the spindle. There are many ways to do this. Some use an indicator some use a pilot level as well as fixtures( precision ground plates to indicate off off) as stated before. If you go to youtube and look at fiatnuts page he has tons of engine machining vids as well as machining for screw in studs.

I have done a couple on my Brigeport milling machine(DRO on all axis) (home garage) and it takes some time to set them up cause I do not have a head fixture $$. The Z axis DRO really helps with dialing in the right value you want for a depth and just set the stops and go.

Yes a mag drill will work too but they are not cheap either.

Last edited by TJSBBC; 04-03-2014 at 10:56 AM.
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  #41 (permalink)  
Old 04-03-2014, 10:47 AM
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well the first issue that I can see in the pics is that you have a shouldered stud, tupicaly used with guide plate insatallation, the rocker sits up to high. if you don't want machine the stud bosses down you need to change to a shoulderless screw in stud, on the vortec the clearance is pretty close between the bottom of the roller rocker and the stud boss. you didn't state what type of rockers you have. you should be using a narrowed rocker for vortec heads, and they also need to be self aligning if your not running guide plates. you can correct the lift issue of the retainer hitting the guide with new aftermarket springs and retainers as opposed to longer valves, or have the guide bosses machined down, this is assuming coil bind is not of an issue. hope this helps.
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  #42 (permalink)  
Old 04-03-2014, 11:12 AM
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. Don't know if you started at the beginning or not: Vortec heads often can't take more than about .465" -.480" lift without the spring retainer hitting the valve seal/valve guide... your lift is .525"...

. That can be fixed with an Alex No Mods kit:

VALVE SPRING KIT, SB CHEVY VORTEC, HI-PERF HYD ROLLER - Alex's Parts Sales

. Then the pushrods length/rocker arm body height needs to be setup so the rocker arm tip stays near the center of the valve stem tip over its range of motion when engine is running...
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  #43 (permalink)  
Old 04-03-2014, 11:50 AM
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Hey guys, thanks for the input. I'd like to say please read from page 1 before commenting. There are issues being brought up that aren't the issue. I'v stated self aligning rockers before. Yes Vortec heads, its in the title. I'm completely aware of the lift issues with vortecs, that isn't my problem. I'm double checking everything and making sure I have all the proper clearances.

The only thing I was unsure of is the milling of the stud boss. I know I can use shoulderless or shouldered. I'v chosen shouldered cause I'v heard enough to deter me from shoulderless.

My initial problem was rocker hitting stud, I'v since been aware my stud sits too high, so mill down the boss. Which I bought the Comp tool to do so. My one head is already ruined cause for some reason every
other stud is leaning in, so its a consistent error, thats another problem I just brought to the table.

All I need is to mill down the bosses and tap one head. Then I need to decide on pushrod length. From my last photos, there seems to be conflicting results with the plastic checker vs the rocker actually being on there. So it could def mean I don't have the stud boss milled down enough. I only did that one on the ruined head to see if that solved my problem on the geometry. I understand the sweeping method as well.

TSCBB, yeah I hear you. I'v had enough and want to just take them to a shop with the right tools. But at the same time, if there is a way to do it at home I'm surely that guy. I just bought the Comp tool and a drill press, so that could have paid for the machine work from the gate!!
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  #44 (permalink)  
Old 04-03-2014, 11:57 AM
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crussel85, didn't see your post. Yeah I made sure the tap threads were closest to the stud. Only thing I can think of aside from there being play in those threads with a tap and bolt (not sure if its suppose to have play, seems fishy to me) there is also a tiny bit of play in the arbor. So with that play in the arbor and the tap threads, I'm guessing things could get off. But its a consistent pattern. I think what might have happened and I can't recall which way I did it on either head, as on one I might have used the existing press in stud as my guide then tapped the other stud. Then I used the arbor in the tapped stud to tap the other stud.

question is, should I pull out all the studs and tap with the arbor, or tap off of one stud first? I figure I got one head right, but I can't figure out if I pulled all the studs first. Also I think lining it up in a drill press and tapping it by hand with the press will keep it perfect.

I do have a good tap handle, not the cheapo kind.
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  #45 (permalink)  
Old 04-03-2014, 12:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 99 to Life View Post
Hey guys, thanks for the input. I'd like to say please read from page 1 before commenting. There are issues being brought up that aren't the issue. I'v stated self aligning rockers before. Yes Vortec heads, its in the title. I'm completely aware of the lift issues with vortecs, that isn't my problem. I'm double checking everything and making sure I have all the proper clearances.

The only thing I was unsure of is the milling of the stud boss. I know I can use shoulderless or shouldered. I'v chosen shouldered cause I'v heard enough to deter me from shoulderless.

My initial problem was rocker hitting stud, I'v since been aware my stud sits too high, so mill down the boss. Which I bought the Comp tool to do so. My one head is already ruined cause for some reason every
other stud is leaning in, so its a consistent error, thats another problem I just brought to the table.

All I need is to mill down the bosses and tap one head. Then I need to decide on pushrod length. From my last photos, there seems to be conflicting results with the plastic checker vs the rocker actually being on there. So it could def mean I don't have the stud boss milled down enough. I only did that one on the ruined head to see if that solved my problem on the geometry. I understand the sweeping method as well.

TSCBB, yeah I hear you. I'v had enough and want to just take them to a shop with the right tools. But at the same time, if there is a way to do it at home I'm surely that guy. I just bought the Comp tool and a drill press, so that could have paid for the machine work from the gate!!
You answered your own question in paragraph three as to why you should bring them to an engine machine shop who has proper tools, equipment and procedures.
T.J.
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