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  #46 (permalink)  
Old 04-03-2014, 12:48 PM
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. Champfering the top of the stud hole before tapping may help getting them tapped straight... as will the drill press...

. Are the studs leaning enough to make it difficult getting the rocker to sweep on the right spot on the valve tip?

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Old 04-03-2014, 02:15 PM
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Are you milling down the boss the thickness of the hex AND the radius above the hex, before it becomes true shank portion of the stud?? .250" milled of deosn't seem enough, but it's been a while since I've done it. Seems like .250" is just the thickness of the wrench flats on the stud. Just verify is all I'm saying.

The drill press hand tap method will keep everything straight. Hold the tap in the chuck and start the tap turning the chuck by hand the the first few threads, then swap to the tap handle with a center point in the drill chuck to fit into the center divot in the back end of the tap, to keep everything in line. Keep pressure down with the press handle while you turn the tap handle.
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Old 04-03-2014, 05:28 PM
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The normal amount to remove is .400
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Old 04-03-2014, 06:15 PM
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thanks for the input guys, as I said I got one head fine. So I think somehow oddly enough I pulled all the studs then tapped using the tool with arbor. On the other head I might have tapped using the stock stud as a guide. I have a set of crap 305 heads I'm gonna do a run on and see what is up. I was going to do them first for practice, but just dove in and it seemed easy and didn't think anything was wrong till I put my studs in the one head.

As for the milling yeah, it was just the hex portion, no taper. I'll practice milling down a head and tapping it with both methods as I described. If I get it right I'll do my final heads that way. IF not I'll def just take it to the machine shop.

My goal was to def keep these budget oriented and I like the idea of doing what I can in house. I'll learn after this what the best way for future heads will be. I have 3.5 sets of vortecs, so either way its still a good money deal whether I take em to a machine shop or not. I'm just trying to scrape up the rest to finally wrap this up and I keep adding to my list, so I'm just trying to save where I can. I just bought a cool old drill press today, been looking for a good old one for quite some time, I'll work on these next week when I'm back in town and post results.
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Old 04-30-2014, 11:56 PM
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Hey guys, I know this thread has been dead for a bit. So I got my new head retapped and is great, I also got some stud bosses milled down with the comp tool in a drill press, I built a jig for the head. I got about .300 off right now, but I'm just up in the air with .300 or some saying .350 and.400. I am NOT running guide plates which measure about .112 so I figured .300 sounded good. On my stud its def more like .400 from bottom to top where there is NO transition to it, but .400 seemed a bit much. I just don't want to over mill this down (is that possible).

As of right now things are looking much better. I put the head on to moch up some push rod length. I'll post more on that later, but I'v read people saying the blue pushrod checker isn't the best tool. Luckily I do have an adjustable checker too. My preliminary results are stock, .100 over and .100 under. The blue tool is saying need shorter rods. I did a sweep test on all three ways. I'll post more tomorrow and get pics.

My question is, when doing the sweep test, using checking springs. I bring the lifter to base circle, I set zero lash, I then turn the poly lock 1/2 turn. Is this necessary when checking the sweep? Or is that not ideal?
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Old 05-01-2014, 10:18 AM
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Here are some pics, I labeled them.

So my question is, it looks like its calling for shorter pushrods. If I mill this stud boss down a little more (which I think I needed to anyway) would that put me where I need to be?

Pics are of sweeping pattern (no preload) 3 choices and also the set screw depth when I'm at a stock and +/- .100 thou on the pushrod. More evidence its calling for a shorter rod, but again I think the boss just needs milled down a bit more.

any thoughts would be appreciated.
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  #52 (permalink)  
Old 05-01-2014, 10:23 AM
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Rocker arm studs have nothing to do with pushrods length. Milling the bosses will not change pushrod length. In other words, if using stock height lifters, stock height valves, and stock rocker arms the pushrod length won't change when installing screw in studs.
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Old 05-01-2014, 12:31 PM
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Tough to see the patterns in the pictures. Which one gives you the most lift at the valve? Whichever one gives you the most lift will also give you the narrowest pattern.
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Old 05-01-2014, 03:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 99 to Life View Post
Hey guys, I know this thread has been dead for a bit. So I got my new head retapped and is great, I also got some stud bosses milled down with the comp tool in a drill press, I built a jig for the head. I got about .300 off right now, but I'm just up in the air with .300 or some saying .350 and.400. I am NOT running guide plates which measure about .112 so I figured .300 sounded good. On my stud its def more like .400 from bottom to top where there is NO transition to it, but .400 seemed a bit much. I just don't want to over mill this down (is that possible).

As of right now things are looking much better. I put the head on to moch up some push rod length. I'll post more on that later, but I'v read people saying the blue pushrod checker isn't the best tool. Luckily I do have an adjustable checker too. My preliminary results are stock, .100 over and .100 under. The blue tool is saying need shorter rods. I did a sweep test on all three ways. I'll post more tomorrow and get pics.

My question is, when doing the sweep test, using checking springs. I bring the lifter to base circle, I set zero lash, I then turn the poly lock 1/2 turn. Is this necessary when checking the sweep? Or is that not ideal?
You have to do this with a check lifter as well if you're running hydraulics as they collapse the plunger with very little opposing spring pressure which gives an incorrect answer.

You can take a lifter or lifters apart and use small washers to shim under the plunger to the inside bottom of that bore so the plunger is kept from sinking more than what the running adjustment would be. Then run you test, if you continue to get a range of +.1 to -.1 that tells you either the valve job is outside spec or you've got a mix of stem lenghts in any case the stems need to be a lot closer to a common lenght than a .2 inch range. Start by running a straight edge across the stem tips.

Bogie
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Old 05-01-2014, 05:38 PM
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99 to Life,
Since you asked about lifter preload earlier, and didn't get a response, I thought I'd mention that its my understanding that you can't use a normal hydraulic lifter for checking pushrod length. The plunger in the lifter will bleed down/collapse somewhat without oil pressure. If the plunger was allowed to bottom out in the body during measuring it would result in a pushrod approx. 0.110" too short.
I'm not certain that a solid lifter will have the exact same plunger height that a hydraulic lifter has(depends on the preload), so I made a spacer to install into my hyd. lifter's body that simulates the lifter's plunger height with about 1 full turn preload(approx. 0.041" with 3/8-24 thread stud).
I came up with a thickness of about 0.115", with a 0.325" hole in the center, and an OD of 0.621" for a spacer. You can use washers or whatever instead of the spacer I made to replace the spring in the lifter assy. as long as the pushrod seat is 0.041" lower than if the plunger was fully pumped up to the retaining ring/snap ring.
FWIW,
ssmonty
PS. I see that oldbogie posted since I started my reply, but perhaps some off this will help.

To the Moderator: I tried to attach a pic, but had no response when I clicked the "Manage Attachments" tab/button. I don't know if it has anything to do with it, but I noticed at the bottom of the "Reply to Thread" page there is a box labeled "Posting Rules" that shows "HTML code is OFF". Don't know if that makers a difference or not. My computer has been acting a bit strange after it performed an automatic "update" last week. For instance if I go to Yahoo, I can't go to the link by just left clicking anymore. I have to right click then select "open in another tab".??????
I don't know if it has any relevance but on another thread titled"http://www.hotrodders.com/forum/foray-into-porting-heads-first-time-292722.html" I can't tell that the OP has made any type of attachment when its obvious he has????

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Old 05-01-2014, 07:30 PM
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thanks guys,yeah I was thinking about the lifter bleed down and preload, I figured with checking springs they might not bleedown, but it does seem as if they are. I figured if it was just an old worthless flattap lifter I can weld it, but I don't wanna ruin any of these roller lifters. So yeah I'll prolly make a spacer.

crussell, I can see your point in one sense as others have said that. But.. when I started with a stock stud boss my pushrod wouldn't even touch the rocker,.300 knocked off and its really close to working. So it seems to me by lowering the stud boss its effecting the "need" for shorter rods. If I were running non shouldered studs, I could agree for sure.

So back to my question on milling down another .100 to make it .400, or should I just recheck pushrod length with a proper lifter that won't plunge first?

I def think the amount of thread I have available on the stud (varies with diff length pushrods) is a good sign of where the length should be, aside from a good sweep. If my set screw is way far down, like these pics, vs right in the middle of the poly lock, I'd say thats a good indicator as well.

One thing is for sure my clearances are all looking good with the rocker on all 3 checking points, the back of rocker to stud at full lift, the bottom of rocker to the hex and the retainer to rocker hasn't caught my attention yet so I'm guessin it is good, but I'll double check.

thanks for the input guys.
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Old 05-01-2014, 07:40 PM
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If the only part of the valve train that changes is installing screw in studs, pushrod length WILL NOT change, period.

The reason you ran into your original problem with the rocker arm bottoming out is because you added the thickness of the shoulder on the stud.
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Old 05-01-2014, 08:19 PM
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I do agree with that, but to install hex screw in studs, proper clearances need to be made. My hex is .250 thou, if you measure up to the radius its more like .400. I'm at .300 now. So it seems as if that part of the equation is off, stock geometry isn't going to be made, with either 1.5 or 1.6 ratios. It doesn't seem as if I am bottoming out my rocker to the stud anymore, thats why I ask is .300 enough.

I need to check the sweep with a stiff lifter and measure all my valve heights to confirm those. So I'll leave the boss where its at now and see if I can't run the stock pushrod as is, which I know I should be able to.

However with the stock pushrod in there now, when I put my polylock on and set zero lash, the set screw is way far in, so lets say the sweep checks out perfect, I'd realistically need a taller stud to have more thread? Thats been confusing me as well. Especially if I did take off another .100 off the stud boss, its going to move the stud tip farther down and give me less to work with on the poly lock.
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Old 05-01-2014, 08:45 PM
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You are not changing the geometry by just installing screw in studs. If you are wanting more threads on the polylocks then yes you will need a stud with a longer "effective" length
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Old 05-02-2014, 09:39 AM
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99 to Life,
Thought I'd also mention that with the 1.6:1 ratio rockers you need to keep a good eye on the clearance holes in the heads for the pushrods. The pushrod will be moved closer to the rocker stud than if using stock rockers and it looks really close in some of your pics.
Also I've never seen set screws that deep into the polylocks . What is the part number/mfg of the studs you are using?
FWIW,
ssmonty

Last edited by ssmonty; 05-02-2014 at 09:53 AM.
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