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Old 12-21-2002, 03:47 PM
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Post 100+mpg question

i was browsing thru old threads and and found the one about getting great mileage i tried to download the plans and builders manual and didnt get anything if it s not there anymore does someone else have them on there computer i was very intrigued by the topic and i would like to learn more so if anyone can help out that would be great

thanks,
Ron

http://www.hotrodders.com/cgibin/ubb/19/000285/ <img src="confused.gif" border="0">

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Old 12-21-2002, 05:40 PM
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Yeah I got the downloads to work... I will send them to you if you promise to build it HEHE Not to ruin the guys credability (if he has any) but by reading his story he sounds a little cracked out to me
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Old 12-21-2002, 09:52 PM
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If it sounds too good to be true, it likely is. It ain't the carburetor folks, it's the Otto thermodynamic cycle ths prevents 100mpg. Until you can perfect a perpetual motion machine, it ain't agonna hapin!
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Old 12-21-2002, 10:18 PM
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Yeah his story sounds like something from a techo-thriller novel. But his patent checked out. It is under the category of "abstarct", meaning he couldn't get it to work for them, but the idea is patented. But you do know that the only people who like this technology: consumers and Green Peace people. The government makes too much money off of our oil problems, and off of the oil industry to let this go through. That sucks.

[ December 22, 2002: Message edited by: Mr.56Chevy ]</p>
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Old 12-22-2002, 12:05 AM
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That was an exhausting thread, what I did worked...I'm sure others work also. The big problem is most of these types of devices are not flexible at all, regular driving conditions are too demanding for most economy improvement ideas. The exhaust heated plenum worked very well...at highway speeds...on smooth highways...at constant throttle. Not too practical for most people.

Smokey Yunicks idea seemed like a workable compromise to me? It was built and proven and tested...in Hot Rod magazine no less? A 250Hp Fiero that got close to 60 mpg sounded pretty good at the time. Every one laughed at the Wankel engine too.

Hydrogen is right around the corner! :p
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Old 12-22-2002, 12:14 AM
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I say just run alcohol... cleaner burning... more power... easy to adapt engines and it can be mass produced!!!!
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Old 12-22-2002, 03:33 AM
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HI. I jus wrote an essay for my diesel class about fuel cells and during a study group kind of discussion somebody mentioned something about a guy round abouts here that either converted his engine on his genset or the fuel he was mixing together but he some how managed to burn a water/fuel mix. Don know if it's diesel or gas or propane or what but after christmas break i'm gonna try and track him down. If you want I'll update you on my findings. Don get your hopes up it may not be for real, but if it is you could make a great little commuter and jus fill it up with a hose. What's this world comming to? <img src="confused.gif" border="0">
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Old 12-22-2002, 10:15 AM
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Water/fuel emulsions have been around for quite some time now.

Here's some links off of Google, knock yourself out.

<a href="http://www.google.ca/search?q=water+fuel+emulsion&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&hl=en&meta=" target="_blank">http://www.google.ca/search?q=water+fuel+emulsion&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&hl=en&meta=</a>
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Old 12-22-2002, 03:13 PM
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hey 4-jaw you said you built something similar? would you have any plans left or remember much about it? if so could you send some of the stuff to me, tanks i just think that it would be awseome if i could even get 25-30mpg in my stang and still have power.
Ron
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Old 12-22-2002, 03:18 PM
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I don't have the plans anymore, they are still available in the back of Popular Mechanics I think. The exchanger size is tied to the size of the engine.
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Old 12-22-2002, 03:37 PM
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Hey thanks 4 Jaw that puriNOx addative sounds pretty interesting I didn't think the shelf life would be so long.
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Old 12-23-2002, 07:01 AM
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The only way to get super mileage out of an Otto cycle (4-cycle) is drastically reduce weight, keep acceleration to very low rates, coast whenever possible, etc. The old Mobil Economy Run contestants typically got +100mpg but the way they got it would be totally unacceptable to a normal driver. If one of those super carbs that have been in the full page info-ads in Popular Mechanics for the past 80 years worked, the Mobil guys would have all been running them. Their rules were simple, anything, legal or illegal goes - just get the best mileage and fastest ET possible.

As 4jaw says, there are tricks you can do to get big numbers but you must sacrifice performance features most aren't willing to do. As I recall in the previous thread on this subject, 4jaw made his super carb for his mother's car but she wouldn't use it!

Think about the rumors of super carbs for a minute. All carbs do is mix air and gasoline and make an attempt to gassify the liquid fuel because liquids don't burn - only gasses burn. If carbs were the problem then LPG or natural gas engines would be getting +100mpg without raising a sweat 'cause they can be set up with perfect air/fuel ratios very easily and there is no liquid fuel to contend with.

I am a petroleum engineer and trust me, my company or any other company I know of is NOT trying to suppress the perfect carburetor! If Detroit could find one that gave huge mileage improvements and still maintain performance, trust me, they would be using it yesterday, if for no other reason to get the Algore tree huggers off their backs.

In a 4-cycle engine 25% of the energy genrated from the fuel goes out with the engine coolant, 50% goes out with the exhaust gasses, 5% goes out misc. other losses. A VERY efficient engine uses 20% of the energy in the fuel for motive power. Install heat regentation devices, hybrid gasoline engine/electric motor power plants, reduce vehicle weight to hundreds of pounds rather than thousands, limit acceleration to 0-60 in 2-3 minutes and, yes, you can get 100mpg from Otto cylce gasoline engines. The problem is that no one wants a car like that.
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Old 12-23-2002, 03:19 PM
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Amen. The sacrifices necessary to achieve the goal are too high, driveability is terrible except at highway speed at WOT on level ground. You don't get something for nothing.
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