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-   -   144 blower on 350 (http://www.hotrodders.com/forum/144-blower-350-a-227916.html)

swanson1930 01-03-2013 05:32 PM

144 blower on 350
 
I have a 350 crate engine 290hp with a 327 300 cam making:D
300 HP and wanting to add a b&m 144 blower and was wondering how much of a HP gain will I have and make on my set up...and how much is a used 144 worth (Xmas) present

vinniekq2 01-03-2013 06:43 PM

probably 80 or 90 plus HP with no other changes. round it off to 100 if it sounds cool

techinspector1 01-03-2013 07:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by swanson1930 (Post 1630256)
wanting to add a b&m 144 blower and was wondering how much of a HP gain will I have

Traditionally, the gain is on the order of 25-40% over naturally-aspirated with a modest 5-6 lb boost.
300 times 1.25 = 375
300 times 1.4 = 420
To use 8 lbs on pump gas, you'll need a 8.0:1 or less static compression ratio.
To use 7 lbs on pump gas, you'll need a 8.5:1 or less static compression ratio.
To use 6 lbs on pump gas, you'll need a 9.0:1 or less static compression ratio.
To use 5 lbs on pump gas, you'll need a 9.5:1 or less static compression ratio
To use 4 lbs on pump gas, you'll need a 10.0:1 or less static compression ratio.
I would make a phone call to Weiand and find out what their recommendation is for ring end gap and piston to wall clearance.
Look into some kind of ignition retard that changes with boost changes.

hcompton 01-03-2013 07:25 PM

By the 327 300 cam do you mean the gm 30-30 cam. Because that cam is not good for a blower motor. You may want to go with a nice roller setup for blower it will make ot pop off like you want. The large over lap cam will not snap like one setup for a blower.

You either want to run a efi cam or a cam made to work with a boosted application.

Look at the power output this way. If you have 14.7 psi of boost you will be adding another atmosphere to the engine. And in therory that should double the hp output of the engine. So back that down to 5 psi and you can guestamate how much power the engine will make. Subtracting for loss and the 25 to 50 hp needed to turn the super charger.

techinspector1 01-03-2013 07:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hcompton (Post 1630314)
By the 327 300 cam do you mean the gm 30-30 cam. Because that cam is not good for a blower motor.

I think he means the 300hp 350 cam. Here's a retro grind from Comp.....
12-670-4 - NOSTALGIA PLUS Hydraulic Flat Tappet Camshafts

hcompton 01-03-2013 08:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by techinspector1 (Post 1630320)
I think he means the 300hp 350 cam. Here's a retro grind from Comp.....
12-670-4 - NOSTALGIA PLUS Hydraulic Flat Tappet Camshafts

Tech how do you think that will run when compared with an actual blower cam in the same basic size.

12-400-4 - Blower & Turbo Hydraulic Flat Tappet Camshafts

It does not appear the current cam will be bad. Certainly not as bad as the 30-30 cam would be. But would the added midrange of this cam make it worth it to swap out. I dont do too much with roots style blowers. And never with smaller cams.

techinspector1 01-03-2013 08:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hcompton (Post 1630337)
Tech how do you think that will run when compared with an actual blower cam in the same basic size.

12-400-4 - Blower & Turbo Hydraulic Flat Tappet Camshafts

It does not appear the current cam will be bad. Certainly not as bad as the 30-30 cam would be. But would the added midrange of this cam make it worth it to swap out. I dont do too much with roots style blowers. And never with smaller cams.

All I know is what I learn from talking to the engineers and racers who run this stuff. Blower Drive Service says that they have consistently had better results on gasoline with a 110 LSA, so that's the info I pass on to others who ask. They say that you may want to open up the LSA for alcohol, but tighten up to 110 on gasoline.

I wouldn't hesitate to use a 300hp cam with a small blower. Now, if you were to get serious with a 6-71 or 8V-71, then yeah, I'd want to stab another cam in there and re-piston the motor for forged and 8.00:1 or lower SCR.

F-BIRD'88 01-03-2013 09:26 PM

You are right the old 30-30 cam makes a very poor bower cam.
Made that mistake once.
Many of the other GM SBC cams work very very well thou.

The GM 350-290 crate motor comes with a high perf cam in it.
222-222 .450-.460 114...
Works bet when you degree it and advance it some.


The 327-300hp is a different cam Its basicly a baseline low perf "stock cam"

195-202 .390-.410-112. It will tend to limit the performance and power of this motor, with a blower.

Clairify which cam you have.
For the purpose you re seeking here are few that do work vey well.

Summit cam 1105
Crane HMV278-2 113801
Comp CS 268AH14 11-404-4
Crane H 288-2 113821
Anything of a similar nature. Use one of these with a 750 and 6 to 7psi boost and give the stock crate motor heads a home port job and you will add well over 100hp to your 350 with a 144 blower.
I am being very conservative.
Adding a 144 blower is a great way to wake up this low compression crate motor.

F-BIRD'88 01-03-2013 09:41 PM

All I know is what I learn from talking to the engineers and racers who run this stuff. Blower Drive Service says that they have consistently had better results on gasoline with a 110 LSA, so that's the info I pass on to others who ask. They say that you may want to open up the LSA for alcohol, but tighten up to 110 on gasoline.

You're reading this out of the context it is offered for. They are refering to a 671-871 blower motor.
And refered to seeking a specific effect whe using more agreesive blower boost.

While a split cam that does have a 110LSA is not a deal killer on this motor. The 112 and 114LSA cams have proven to work very very well specificly in this type of motor with the 144 blower.

F-BIRD'88 01-03-2013 09:45 PM

12-400-4 is a "turbo cam" The timing points are specific to enhance the performance and boost responce of a' turbocharged motor. A bit of a differenct beast.

Not typically a good Roots type blower cam.

F-BIRD'88 01-03-2013 11:12 PM

Further on the 110-114 cam debate: when you get down to it and look at the BDS blower cams listed
( Which are Isky cam lobes) you will see that the 110 cams do no ahve the same duration split and the 114LSA cams tend to.

the 110 cams tend to have a 5-6deg in ex split and the 114 cams tend to show a 110-112 deg in ex duration split. Which make the accumulative overlap a lot more similar.
In other words they are not so different.
Being that they are Isky cams gets a big + from me , for sure. If you call , Isky will grind it any way you want.
www.blowerdriveservice.com
www.iskycams.com
Do not be afraid to seek technical advice from either of these companies reguarding blowers and camshafts for blower motors.

Isky cam 201271/281-12 is another good off the shelf cam for the your blower motor.
It is very similar to the others I listed.

techinspector1 01-04-2013 04:46 PM

F-BIRD'88....

BDS does not differentiate between the source of the compressed air, whether it be from a 6-71, 8V-71, 4-41, 3-71, 144, 177, Latham Axial Flow, air bottles (per Mickey Thompson) or whatever. And the camshaft has no idea who or what compressed the air and it does not care. All it knows is how to tell the tappet what to do based on the lobe profile.

So don't come here with more of your half-baked opinions, telling me that I took something out of context just because it seems that you will go to any lengths to disagree with me. Even when I try to agree with you and use some of your suggestions, you go the other way. Case in point was the blower on a BBC a few days ago. I suggested that the OP might take a page from your playbook and bolt a blower on the motor. You came right in behind me and said that the motor was fine as it was, naturally-aspirated. I guess what I'm seeing is that emotionally, you're a tiny little person.

You are transparent and predictable and if you want to start calling me on stuff again, remember, I can play the same game. I though that after I blew up on you the last time, that you would play nice and leave me alone. Do I have to start in on you again??????

from BDS....
"Choosing the proper camshaft would be the most important requirement for a blower motor. An improper cam will cause a variety of problems that can easily be avoided by following a few simple guidelines. Hydraulic cams are recommended if you intend to drive the vehicle frequently, requiring little or no maintenance, and the maximum engine RPM's are kept around 6500 or lower. Roller rocker arms are recommended. Flat tappet and roller cams are recommended for high performance applications especially where the engine will see high RPM's. Exact camshaft specifications vary depending on the performance level you wish to attain. BDS offers different types or stages of cam grinds specifically made for blower motors. Refer to camshaft specs listed in tech info for BDS' individual engine camshaft specifications and their intended uses.
If you wish to purchase your cam from one of the many fine camshaft manufacturers, we suggest using our camshaft specs as a guidline. Extremely high lift and long duration cams are recommended for high RPM, high performance racing only.
The lobe center of the cam will play an important role in determining the performance characteristics of an engine. Wide lobe centers (112 to 114 degrees etc.) will create higher cylinder pressure providing more horsepower with cooler burning fuel such as alcohol and methanol. We have found 110 lobe centers to produce the best overall power on gasoline.
Whatever cam you choose, make sure that it will operate and perform properly in the RPM range required for your application."

F-BIRD'88 01-04-2013 06:34 PM

TI: Trouble is that everything you post and advise on is based solely on stuff you read.

Not from real world specific direct experience. Mine is. There is a big difference and many many times you are flat out wrong.

Your attempts at personal attacks will not change that.

You seem like a nice guy but by your parrot posts, lack real world specific experience on the subject matter. You tend to parrot stuff from the internet, with out the real world practical experience to filter it.
That often makes your info, bad.
I am not attacking you. Just correcting the info based on the real world and giving it real world context.

See all the camshafts I mention in post #9..including the 30-30 cam.. I can speak on these relative to the 144 blower on a 350 because I have used all of them except 2, in a real 350 motor with a real Weiand/B&M blower on it.
Sorry no digital pictures or U tube videos.. Some of us actually worked on cars and did the stuff before the internet came along.

F-BIRD'88 01-04-2013 07:16 PM

You are right thou. I am consistent and predictable. You know why I like to often post about
these blower motors. BECAUSE I know First hand thru direct real experience that they work great.
And I already know 95% of the problems people will have. Cause I have done it. And had to work thru the same problem.

And when I see that you have posted bad info. I will post the right info, that I know to be true. Without personal attack. So that people get accurate info.
It is not a personal attack.

1Gary 01-04-2013 10:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by F-BIRD'88 (Post 1630681)
TI: Trouble is that everything you post and advise on is based solely on stuff you read.

Not from real world specific direct experience. Mine is. There is a big difference and many many times you are flat out wrong.

Your attempts at personal attacks will not change that.

You seem like a nice guy but by your parrot posts, lack real world specific experience on the subject matter. You tend to parrot stuff from the internet, with out the real world practical experience to filter it.
That often makes your info, bad.
I am not attacking you. Just correcting the info based on the real world and giving it real world context.

See all the camshafts I mention in post #9..including the 30-30 cam.. I can speak on these relative to the 144 blower on a 350 because I have used all of them except 2, in a real 350 motor with a real Weiand/B&M blower on it.
Sorry no digital pictures or U tube videos.. Some of us actually worked on cars and did the stuff before the internet came along.

Quote:

Originally Posted by F-BIRD'88 (Post 1630696)
You are right thou. I am consistent and predictable. You know why I like to often post about
these blower motors. BECAUSE I know First hand thru direct real experience that they work great.
And I already know 95% of the problems people will have. Cause I have done it. And had to work thru the same problem.

And when I see that you have posted bad info. I will post the right info, that I know to be true. Without personal attack. So that people get accurate info.
It is not a personal attack.

This isn't a personal attack either.

First me then Richard.You are very argumentative and defensive. Just the facts.When I find overall a member on a forum doing that,it is surely due to the fact of having no real world experience.

When you post a last picture to boost your position and it doesn't have any connection to you.If I see that,don't you think everyone else does??. That's playing a kid's game.

When you have danced around turn key costs,if your so knowledgeable,I would think you would know what that current cost would be. You change in another post to three different model blowers to fit you "ballpark" pricing.Here again your info was flawed and again I caught it and so did everyone else.

Guys that have done things before,you see that in their posts.Both Richard and me have been exposed to that kind of knowledgeable forum member and you don't see all this defensive posts.

Then you portray this mystery tune up which has to be right so you can do anything you want,well no details makes a bigger case of you not having any experience at all.

You got to know your playing around with other people's money.Right??.

Then a case of you NEVER BEING WRONG just caps it off.I mean really??. NEVER??.

So this real world experience,I doubt that.

Your creditability has been more damaged by your own posts than anything any of us have said.

I wanted to stay put of this thread because I knew you would ruin it for the O/P as you have.


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