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Old 07-06-2007, 05:32 PM
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190 cc or 210 cc intake runners ?

Hi, i might need a little advice from more experienced guys than me self in this case so don't lay on it. The case is im building a chevy 327 that i want to be street able in my 72 Nova so the low end torque is rather important, don't get me wrong its not going in my mothers car. The compression is going to be 10.25 using 64 cc heads and the cam is a solid roller 244 degree intake @0.50 and 248 exhaust. lift 549 in. 565 ex. total duration 284 in and 288 ex. lobe separation 112. using Edelbrock performer rpm air gap intake manifold. converter stall is going to be 3200-3500 rpm and rear end ratio 3.42.
And now i have to choose from a 190 cc intake runners and 210 cc. Do you guys think the 210 cc version is to big to be used on the streets on this engine ? any advice or experience ? Thanks and my best regards from Iceland
Kristofer.

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Old 07-06-2007, 07:31 PM
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the duration of the camshaft, and the short stroke engine makes me say for sure the 210's
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Old 07-06-2007, 07:41 PM
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Which brand of heads are they? Since this is a somewhat smaller engine and you've said low end torque is somewhat important (though that 244 duration cam isn't going to help any) I'd say go with the 190s.
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Old 07-06-2007, 08:26 PM
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The cam makes me think 210cc But if you want low end torque from a 327 then the 190cc heads are the ones. Your cam will hold you back on low end torque. But then again your loose converter will help that. If it were me i would go with the 210cc because the 327 will like and need to rev. My 2 cents. Good luck and let us know what you decide.

Mark.
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Old 07-06-2007, 08:30 PM
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Snappy throttle? Or Top end?

I would go with the 190's on the street as the increased velocity in the narrower runners would give you a nice snappy throttle response, especially with the compression you are running.
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Old 07-07-2007, 04:09 PM
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If the 210 is not to big to be used on a small engine like this 327 and are street-able with this combo, I think i will use them . Thank you guys for good answers i really appreciate it. Best regards from Iceland. Kristofer.
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Old 07-07-2007, 06:10 PM
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190 is too big on a small cube 327, 210 is going to make it soggy as a wet pan cake. My best advice is use a smaller carb and some very low gears. 210 is going to make it soggy due to loss of velocity until it revs high enough to make it`s own. 190`s wouldn`t be as bad, but still it`d be on the sluggish side. to each his own.
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Old 07-08-2007, 01:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DoubleVision
190 is too big on a small cube 327, 210 is going to make it soggy as a wet pan cake. My best advice is use a smaller carb and some very low gears. 210 is going to make it soggy due to loss of velocity until it revs high enough to make it`s own. 190`s wouldn`t be as bad, but still it`d be on the sluggish side. to each his own.
Agreed...your combination is off if you want low end torque.
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Old 07-08-2007, 03:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DoubleVision
190 is too big on a small cube 327, 210 is going to make it soggy as a wet pan cake. My best advice is use a smaller carb and some very low gears. 210 is going to make it soggy due to loss of velocity until it revs high enough to make it`s own. 190`s wouldn`t be as bad, but still it`d be on the sluggish side. to each his own.
It's gonna be miserable to drive. Too much cam and too much head. But like they say....you can lead a horse to water, but you can't make him drink.
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Old 07-09-2007, 02:06 PM
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I think you are putting together a big mismatch of parts.

Why use a wide lobe separation? 108 to 110 is what you need for torque. 112 will reduce peak torque.

Iceland? Don't use an RPM Air Gap. You need a heated intake in cold climates. So use the regular RPM intake. I had an AIR Gap and it drove badly until the intake warmed up. Took about 10 minutes of driving for it to stop hesitating if ambient temperates where below 65 degrees F (18C). Hardly would drive under 40 degrees F. I hated it and I live in South Texas.

I would use the Edlebrock Performer heads (170cc runners, 64cc combustion chambers). They flow good enough for a stout 383 and have heat risers. 170cc runners will help the little 327 make some torque. Don't use the RPM heads (no heat risers).

That is not enough gear for a 327 with a cam that big. I would use a lot more gear (4.11), OR less cam (220 degrees at 0.050") with less stall (2600 rpm) to match the 3.42 gears.

I also don't think you are running enough compression for that big cam. I use 11:1 cr in my 350 with a 244/244 @ 0.050" cam with 110 LSA (CC 292H) and it runs fine on 93 octane with iron heads. Can you zero deck the block?
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Old 07-09-2007, 06:38 PM
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O.K. allright.... hmmm. lets say i would use those edelbrock heads with 170cc intake runners, hmmmm. Im lost here ! you guys say cam around 220@0.50 and what carb size are we talking about ? rear end ratio ?
O.k. lets say i would go with the Edelbrock performer rpm package and not focus so much on the low end. What converter stall and rear end ratio would suit that combo ? Or is that package not so street friendly ? or just not suitable for 327 at all, It is o.k for this engine to be a little aggressive but i do not want to much race effects,
Please guys help me out here, i dispersedly need help here !!
Thanks and best regards. Kristofer.
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Old 07-10-2007, 05:17 AM
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I'm guessing you won't do as much freeway flying as us Aussies, so.... if you run a crisp 327 (10.5,170/180cc,226/230 deg and 650 cfm with a large runner dual plane) I'd use a 3500 rpm stall and 4.10 gears with a 29 inch tyre.

It should march out of the hole in a 3200 lb car, and cruise ok at 100km/h.
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Old 07-10-2007, 07:43 AM
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First you need to decide what gear ratio you are going to use. This is especially important if you are using a 3 speed transmission and plan to drive on the highway. The gear ratios and the engine size will determine what cam size will work best.

Assuming you have a thm350 trans and plan on keeping the 3.42 gears then I would build the engine to 10:1 cr, use Edlebrock aluminum Performer heads (170cc), use a 2500 stall, and a cam with 215 to 220 degrees duration with 110 LSA (a compcam 268H would be a good choice). Use a regular Performer RPM intake with a spread bore carb pattern and use a Jet built Q-jet.

The Performer heads are the same as the Performer RPM heads except the RPM heads do not have heat risers for the intake. You live in a cold climate, so use the rise risers. Also, Edelbrock heads come in 64, 70, and 72 cc combustion chambers so you can adjust compression easier.

Chevy high performance magazine did a story testing 10 sets of aluminum heads that cost under $1000.00 on a well build 383. The 170cc edlebrock heads made the best numbers.

The reason I like Q-jets is they run about the same as a Holley but get 50% better gas mileage. Jet can build a Q-jet to your engine specs(call summit racing). I just pulled off a 670 cfm holley from a friend's 350 and installed a e-bay Q-jet and he picked up 50% better mpg! MPG went from 8 city/ 12 highway to 12/18 and there was no performance difference. Q-jets just look ugly but they are a beautiful work of engineering. Carters and edlebrock carbs are terrible.

If you are willing to add more gear then you can add more cam. Yes, a 327 needs less cam than a 350 or 383. Around 5 degrees less than a 350 and 10 less than a 383.

Actually, I would use a compcam 260H (212/212, 110 lsa) with that 327 and 3.42 gear. I like to be able to spin tires easily so I like to use cams on the torque side. FYI, a 260H in a 327 with edelbrock heads would make power to 6200 or 6300 rpms. This would be good for 350hp and 375 ftlbs of torque. Then add a 150hp shot of N20 for the track.

Don't get hung up with HP numbers. Torque is what makes the car fast and powerful.
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Old 07-11-2007, 04:46 PM
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Thanks guys you heve been most helpful, im surely going to follow your tips. Hope you all have a good day, im going to the phone now to order my parts.
Best regards Kristofer.
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