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Old 04-10-2007, 06:51 PM
Martyn
 
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A 1933 Chev' Master Resto Rod is Born!! but there's a problem......

Hi everyone ...... I'm new to this site and hope that I can get some answers to what is a very puzzling problem.

I've recently completed a 1933 Chev' master sedan restoration. We rebuilt the vehicle exactly to original spec's bodywise, but altered the chassis (boxed), installed a Mustang 2 front end with power steering. The power comes from a 350 small block via a Turbo700. Everything was great until the first test drive.

The car was running really well and felt tight and solid. However, when the steering wheel was moved, even slightly, the car dove very quickly. In other words, the car was very, very twitchy. There does appear to be a fair amount of body roll, but feel that the initial cause is the steering/suspension

I used a Chev' power steering pump coupled to a Thunderbird power rack. Initially, the caster was set to +3 degrees, with 0 degrees camber. Since then, after consulting the suppliers of the front end, I have increased the caster to at least +8 degrees. Still no effect and still twitchy.

I've bypassed the power steering pump by connecting the high and low pressure together, isolating the rack, but it still feels very twitchy.

I'm taking the car into the main dealer again to have the steering geometry set up again after filing out the adjusting slots to allow more caster. Help me out guys, where have I gone wrong???

Martyn

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Old 04-10-2007, 07:24 PM
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Do you have a roll bar ?? Don't know if that's what you mean by diveing but that has been know to cure that in the past. Brian
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Old 04-10-2007, 08:42 PM
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power steering ??

Gm pumps run too much pressure for the Must II they sell pressure reducer kits
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Old 04-10-2007, 10:25 PM
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Steering problem

Thanks Tim and Brian.

I should be getting a relief valve tomorrow and will report back after it's installed.

The problem is too immediate to be a roll bar I think. I was wondering whether the rack was too fast. I'm going to check the turns lock to lock in the morning and see if there is a slower version available.

Martyn
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Old 04-10-2007, 11:53 PM
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Hopefully one of our members can help ... as this is a big problem with a good many of the Mustang II/Pinto IFS conversions. I am fairly sure ... someone here has had this issue and solved it.

I bought a 40 Ford DeLuxe coupe with a Mustang II IFS kit already installed. I bought it to fix and then sell ( hopefully making a few dollars in the process ) It had the same problems ... I pulled the power steering rack off and installed a manual rack ... problem solved ...

I believe one reason the price on the 40 was so LOW ... was that most folks who test drove it were scared of it ... as was the owner ... who bought it off a SceneScene NSRA ad.
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Old 04-11-2007, 03:25 AM
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I'll echo the pressure issue... Typically R&P systems operate around 800 psi and gear box steering operates at around 1500 psi. A normal GM pump will supply too much pressure. When you turn the wheel and crack the valve open its sending double the pressure to the assist and it wants to turn too much.
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Old 04-11-2007, 06:37 AM
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I bought 2 pressure reducing valves ( 1 for me & 1 for a frend). My trk. is not on the road yet, but my friend installed his & said it did not solve the problem.

It was the one Speedway sales for $20. It reduces the flow from 3 to 2 gal/min.

This is a serious street rod problem & to date I have not heard a solution. This T-bird r&p is just tooo fast. A manual r&p is not feasable for me.......I'm 68 & the trk weights too much for manual steering.

This is a problem that the street rod industry should address!!!

Please report back on your results.

Don meyer-mech engr
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Old 04-11-2007, 07:35 AM
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I have installed a couple of these adjustable bypass valves and heard that the customers were happy with them. One was in a 37 Ford and the other was in 51 Chevy.

http://www.heidts.com/heip27.htm

They bleed flow from the high pressure side back into the return side and are adjustable with a knob.

I think there may be 2 different ratio racks made for the Thunderbird. You might try calling one of the suppliers like Durex and asking them how many turns lock to lock the different units have.

http://www.durexpowersteering.com/

Or you could look into a steering quickener, they can be turned around so it slows down the steering istead of making it quicker.

http://www.stockcarproducts.com/steer4.htm

Who made the MII kit you installed?

Mikey
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Old 04-11-2007, 07:37 AM
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http://www.heidts.com/heip27.htm#power follow this link. This is what we used to get the pressure down on or GM pump. We are running the stock power ram that came on the 54 ford. when we first started driving ours it was really twitchy especially at 70mph. the valve made a big difference.Brian
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Old 04-11-2007, 07:43 AM
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powerrodsmike that's funny We posted the same thing with in 2 min of each other. Great minds think alike I guess Brian
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Old 04-11-2007, 08:51 AM
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Thank You Gentlemen......

I'm calling Durex this morning to inquire about a slower rack and will let you know how the pressure reduction valve works.

I did disconnect the power to the rack and although it did quieten it way down, the steering was still twitchy, so I think we are talking R&P here. Let's hope I can get a slower one.

The conmpany who made the IFS conversion kit was 'McGivers' out of Edmonton Alberta Canada. I have been talking to them and their suggestion was to reduce the power going to the rack and install a larger steering wheel.

Will keep you informed of progress.

Martyn
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Old 04-11-2007, 09:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brian0605
powerrodsmike that's funny We posted the same thing with in 2 min of each other. Great minds think alike I guess Brian
Or "like" minds lay in the same gutter. J/K

I believe that the mid 80's T- bird rack was designed to run with a variable assist valve in its factory configuration. It only make sense that it could use some pressure control to bring it under control.
I don't like the idea of a valve that only has one setting, to be used for all of the operating conditions, but until someone can duplicate the controls that ford used with those racks that will be about the only fix.

A bigger steering wheel?
It sounds to me like the Mfg is shooting in the dark.

The guy who manages Durex is named Tregg, very informative and knowlegeable. He has helped me with some weird projects and I recommend talking to him. At times, he has helped us without trying to sell us a product.
That's a hot rodder!

Later, mikey
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Old 04-12-2007, 07:32 AM
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Or "like" minds lay in the same gutter. J/K
I like that one too.....................Brian
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Old 04-12-2007, 08:45 AM
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Not as twitchy .....

OK ..... I've installed a replacement valve in the back of the PS pump that restricts the flow to the rack. I'm also waiting for a shim kit to cut down the pressure delivered to the rack (will be here this AM).

I called Durex yesterday and was met by a very knowledgable and helpful guy. He walked me through the whole set-up process. He's definately in my book now to use for any purchases in the future, you're right, a true Hotrodder.

After the shim kit is installed and the car returned from a complete alignment (including more caster) I'll report back.
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Old 04-12-2007, 09:07 AM
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Since you already drove it with the P/S pump bypassed; it almost sounds like the rack is geared too fast for the length of the Mustang 2 steering arms?? It would be nice to compare the length of the t-bird arms to what you have now.

Going way maximum on the caster keeps it wanting to stay going straight, but I doubt it would cure the problem you have (if I read it correctly)

Heavy caster also increases the load to the rack to get more "feel"; but too much, and you can see the front raise up (on one side or the other) as you go lock-to-lock.....and I would think that could add to a spooky feel in certain conditions. I quess that "roll" from too much caster could also make it feel twitchy.

I wouldn't just put the shims in and then go to a maximum caster. I would try the shims, plus get the caster back to something closer to stock mustang 2 settings, if all else fails.
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