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1937-1957 Buick Oldsmobile Pontiac suspension upgrade

26K views 27 replies 8 participants last post by  Mutt's37Buick 
#1 ·
BIG PROBLEM!!

Hello all I need some help!! I have just finished following the Wiki for upgrading the front suspension for 1937-57 BOP. My '39 olds looks great but I have hit a snag!! I used the 65-70 chevy spindles from CPP that were in the wiki BUT I don't have any steering arms. The Olds arms won't fit and the wiki says you can use stock 65-70 arms but I can't find any!! :pain:

I would like to take the next step and install a Rack-n-Pinion as in the Swapping to rack and pinion Wiki BUT in the wiki it says

"On the 41 Pontiac upgrade covered in the wiki “37 - 57 Buick Olds Pont suspension upgrade” we were able to replace the original 65-70 Chevy steering arms with a set from a 55-57 chevy

I called Speedway Motors and they told me the 55-57 arms will not fit my 65-70 Spindles. I NEED SOME HELP!!!! :(
 
#2 ·
37-57 bop suspension

I noticed your post has not been responded to . Has anyone sent you a pm with a possible answer. I'm checking closely since I wanted to do the same thing with a 37 buick coupe. I hope we can touch base so that I can hear how things went for you once you located a pair of steering arms.
 
#3 ·
Trying to make it work

No one offered any info or ideas so I was On My Own.
I did find a used set of 65-68 steering arms. I don't know how well they will work becouse they bend in toward the center of the car but I will try them.
I'm also using the original olds center link and inner tie rods (with a little machining to adapt them to '70 outter rods). I hope to have it all back together and on the ground this weekend. I will take some photos for you.
 
#5 ·
37-57 bop suspension

Have you upgraded your '37 Buick suspension? I also have a '37 Buick project and would like to upgrade to ball joints. I would be very interested to hear how things went for you. Did you use the '63 Pontiac spindles or the '65-'70 Chevy drop spindle and what was the resulting height of your front end?
 
#6 ·
1937-1957 bop suspension upgrade

I have a 1937 Buick Roadmaster (81 Sedan) that I'm just starting work on. The car was bought used in 1942 by my Grandfather (Mutt owned Ace Garage in Denver for many years).
I'm considering performing the upgrades described in:
wiki/1937-1957_Buick_Oldsmobile_Pontiac_suspension_upgrade
and
wiki/Swapping_to_rack_and_pinion_steering.
Can anyone answer the following questions:
1) In the supension upgrade, the '58 Pontiac spindles were swapped for '65 - '70 CPP drop spidles because the vehicle sat too high. Were the drop spindles required to make the vehicle to stock height or lower?
2) Was stock engine in the '41 Pontiac used for that upgrade?
3) How low was the front of the car with the drop spindles?
4) Has anyone lived with this type of conversion for a while who can share long term results?
Thanks,
Mutt's37Buick
 
#8 ·
I bought a front disc brake kit for a 55 Pontiac chiefton last summer. Got it from ABS Brake parts in Orange,CA. Not sure if they have exactly what your looking for, But they do some custom stuff too. The kit I have uses the stock spindles, making it fairly easy. I have personally installed their stuff and didnt have any issues. Hopefully they might be able to help you out.
 
#10 ·
hard to find parts.

We've got a 37 pontiac in the shop, 400 sbc and posi pickup rear, front has not had any work done on it. I've decided it would be easier to trim off the spring pockets off the outside of the frame , box the\outside of the rails and swap in a Jaguar sedan front suspension. My son also has a 36 olds sedan . body off and the frame looks the same as the pontiac. the jag swaps on pickups put them down low. the whole jag fronts or rears go for $ 100 each around here at pull your own yards.
 
#11 ·
Thanks very much for the feedback.
So far I have not received any direct experience answers to my questions on the two wiki articles.
1) What model & year Jaguar is your front susp. from?
2) I saw some pictures of a chevy sedan with a rear jag suspension at: http://www.cars-on-line.com/50127.html. Spoke with the owner and it's an aftermarket suspension custom set up and cost him $4K. It looks very cool.
3) Have you ever installed a jag rear end or know how difficult it would be?
4) Would you mind sending some pictures of the cutting, boxing ,and install of the new front suspension? This would be a great help because this will be the first time I undertake this.
Thanks
 
#12 ·
jag conversions

Jag suspensions are very popular in the UK, Austraila, New Zeland and there is quite a bit of of info posted on their Rod web sites. a couple guys that post here on HR have used Jags. I currently have 4 jag rears on pallets 2 xjs fronts and 2 F 40 fronts. for our projects. We put a XJS rear in my son.s 22 Dodge lakester. Jag rears are popular in T buckets and there is info on the Tbucketeers and NTBA sites. We used the plans from CCR for building a T bucket, The Jag plans are only $ 5. I copied the Jag brackets and used them to cut the stuff on the optical tracer plasma at the college street rod class. I had some problems . I think the copy machine distorted the prints. The next time I will use the prints to redraw my patterns on white card stock paper. We cut up the rear jag cage-crosmember to use as drill pattenrs for the 3/8 steel plate we used. Most reccomend using the stock rubber mounts for the front suspension. It allows stress points to be better distributed through to whole crossmember. For detailed info you can go the the HAMB website. a lot of pictures and builds shown there/ search Jaguar and you will probably find a dozen builds. They had a list of the years, dimensions, wheel track, width gear ratios available. etc. the Jag rear is a bit different than the US Dana 44, some parts can be used with Mod's.
 
#13 ·
Hi Timothale,
Thanks so much for the info. This looks like a real option that would save some cash and provide a great handling safe ride.
Pictures of the front suspension mods as they are done to your '37 Pontiac would be a tremendous help since it would match my Buick.
It would also be helpful if you could show the boxing of the rails.
My car was my Grandparents car, and is my first street rod, so I want to do it right.
Thanks,
Mutt's37Buick
 
#14 · (Edited)
car projects are on hold

I am in the middle of remodeling the kitchen, and before it will be done, the snow will melt and I will be daylight till dark running the backhoe. and tractor working on the farm. We also are building a duplex, in any spare time. The hamb guys might have some info. have you seen the 57 buick posted there with the jag conversion? search jag ifs or jag irs. the jaguar xjs sedans 70's and thru about 86 or 7 that have the disc brakes in the center are the easiest. the years overlap in the late 80's between the F 40 and xjs. the F 40 moved the brakes out to the wheels and are usually not used for swaps . somewhere on the hamb wad a couple pages of model and dimemsions.
 
#15 ·
Man you've got a lot on your plate.
When I feel pressured I'll think of what your doing.
Thanks so much for the leads on HAMB they are pretty well written with lot's of pictures.
My biggest concern is cutting off spring pockets, boxing correctly, and correct set up.
I found a book at the library that shows install of a Mustang II front on a Buick end named "Project street rod : the step-by-step restoration of a popular vintage car / by Larry Lyles". It will probably be helpful too.
Good luck with all your projects.
Thanks
Matt's37Buick
 
#16 ·
I've been reviewing the HAMB sites with regards to installing '70 to '87 (XJ, XJ6, XJ12, XJS, XJ4.2, XJ5.3) Jaguar front suspension.
Wheel Track (58" on Jag & 59.5" on Roadmaster) and weight (3200 - 3600lbs on Jags & estimated 3600 - 3800lbs on my Roadmaster setup) seem to be a good match.
- One local hot rod shop says this is old technology and recommends a Heidts or Speedway Mustang II.
- They also say it will cost more overall to use the Jag parts & be hard to find parts for in the future.
- I have not had luck finding reliability info on these years of Jaguars.
1) Does anyone else have direct experience with these Jag suspensions who can speak to these issues?
2) I'm also considering a rear end and suspension from these Jags. Does anyone have experience with install, and reliability of jag rear ends?
The ideal situation would be someone who has installed both.
Thanks
 
#17 ·
#18 ·
I've been following this thread as I have a '41 Poncho that, I believe, has the same suspension.

Another way: 2" drop spindles (from CPP), replace springs with bags, remove lever action shocks with relocated modern shocks. Easier approach than fabbing or piecing together your front end?
 
#19 ·
Thanks for the feedback.

1) Do you have disc brakes now?

2) Do you still have king pins?

3) What tires & wheels dia & width are you running?

4) Can you tell me the exact parts you used for the air bags and modern shocks?

5) What is the height of your running boards at front and back?

Pictures of your shock setup would be helpfull too.

Thanks
 
#20 ·
Sorry, but I haven't started. With the bags, the height will be whatever you want to make of it (within reason).

Wheels tires are 16" 6.5" (wide whites!)

This is the bag "kit" I have: D2500/D2600# bags, 480 comp, 5 gallon tank, digital ride control.

http://shop.airliftcompany.com/product/342592/77911/_/Crafter_Package_-_4-Way_with_%282%29D2500_air_springs_%26_%282%29D2600_Extended_air_springs

Front will likely get spindles (FF for ~2.5" drop). I may see about flipping the existing spindles and see if that will work. Looks like I may be able to swap and reverse sides to get ~2-3" drop.
Another idea is to push the A-arm an 1", that should get the same result.

Fab upper/lower shock mounts. I'll snap pics what is planned when I have the front back off.

Scarebird type setup for discs.

I also have a complete '02 Mustang rear assembly (w/discs!). That will get the 4-link treatment.

That Mustang year is basically the same weight within 100# (and rear width) of my Ponti -I'll likely start with stock front and rear shocks.

My Pops has a similar setup on his '51 Buick. Rides just fine.
 
#21 ·
Thanks again for the info

Your approach sounds like it might work well.
My car has a stock oil filled shock absorber.
One local restoration shop that recommended:
- keep coils springs as is and use the existing IFS
- leave that oil shock on, but disable it and fill it with grease
- weld on some mount pads for a new shock absorber
- swap out spindles and add disc brakes on front
- install sway bar

Hot rods shops around here all recommend replacing front susp. with a Heidts , or equivalent, Musdtang II front susp. set-up but this is pretty pricey for parts and install. Can't help but think they are trying to optimized their $$$.

Still waiting to hear from someone who first optimized standard running gear and then swapped out for Mustang II. I would like to know just how much of a difference this makes in the handling of a big and heavy car.
 
#22 · (Edited)
I will be doing a MII in my 52 Canadian Pontiac which is the same frame as a 52 Chevy.
There is a place where you can buy the MII cross member as a you weld kit. It is called the Welder Series.
I then plan on using stock MII control arms and spindles from Speedway.

Welder Series

Welder Series pdf

I have not found any other way of using stock spindles or control arms other than a front clip off a vehicle. The MII is the best for my vehicle IMHO.
 
#23 ·
Thanks for the feedback.

If your goal is to add front disc brakes to your '52 Pontiac, you can buy a conversion kit from:
http://www.scarebird.com/index.php?id=1
That kit provides the conversion kit and list of parts that work with it.
You may also want to check out Classic Performance Products:
http://www.classicperform.com/
Classic performance also has drop spindles.

If your goal is to add ball joints & rack&pinion, then many have recommended the Heidts or Speedway Mustang II kits. These are higher cost than the Welder Series, but the these cross members are welded together to a greater degree than the Welder Series. If you are confident in your welding capabilities, the Welder Series may be the way to go. One thing to consider is that ordering the whole kit from one outfit will eliminate fit issues that may arise.

Can't speak with experience on what is the best approach, because I'm still sorting out the options myself.
Thanks
 
#25 ·
Thaks for the feedback.
1) Have you installed a Heidts of Speedway Mustang II susp & brake kit with no problem?
2) Could you estimate the time required to weld together the Welder Series cross member.
3) Would you happen to know what thickness the metal is on the Welder series?
4) Does anyone know how this compares to the Heidt cross member thickness?
http://www.heidts.com/multifit_mustang_ii_crossmembers.html
one complete heidts mustang II assy is at:
http://www.heidts.com/mustang_ii_complete_package.html
Thanks
 
#26 ·
Hey Mutt whats with the 1 2 3... stuff! Man I thought I was back a school!

Your best bet on these questions is to contact Horton's and ask them. They have excellent videos on the assembly of each of their products.
I know they have been in business for over 40 years and have sold there stuff all over the world. It is a family owned business and an icon in Canadian Hot Rodding. They have thousands of satisfied customers, and I am happy with their product which I have used for over 30 years!
 
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