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Old 07-10-2007, 12:49 PM
b53 b53 is offline
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194 or 202

I have a early 70 350 sbc-30 over with stock crank and rods,comp cam-xe262-10, performer intake,600 performer carb. Im looking at two sets of heads. cast iron 64cc with 194 and150 or 67cc with 202 and 160. The motor is going in a 77 vett with a standard trans. not looking for a lot of top end being a street mach. Would one be better than the other ? why

b53

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Old 07-10-2007, 01:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by b53
I have a early 70 350 sbc-30 over with stock crank and rods,comp cam-xe262-10, performer intake,600 performer carb. Im looking at two sets of heads. cast iron 64cc with 194 and150 or 67cc with 202 and 160. The motor is going in a 77 vett with a standard trans. not looking for a lot of top end being a street mach. Would one be better than the other ? why

b53
Given your combo, I don't think valve size will make much difference. I'd pick the one that offers the best workmanship.

In this strange world, for a performance option on these older heads probably the most effective design is the swept out chamber as for a 2.02 valve in a head that still uses a 1.94 valve. But unless you "roll-your-own", there ain't no such thing, pity.

Bogie
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Old 07-10-2007, 02:25 PM
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re-194 vs 202

bogie
are you saying I am waisting my time with this combo. or do you have a sugestion?
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Old 07-10-2007, 02:42 PM
b53 b53 is offline
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re: 194 -202

I guess what im trying to say is I dont have any heads yet. was looking at low budget heads from JEGS or summit that would work well on this block.by the way it has flat tops
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Old 07-10-2007, 03:35 PM
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re: 194 -202

F-BIRD
where can I get the specs for the L31vh and are the heads avail. from summit? or GM.

thanks.
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Old 07-10-2007, 03:37 PM
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As Fbird says get the Vortechs, they are the best bang for the buck in a budget build up. Yes you will need to get a new int. manif. but you can sell your performer anywhere. The XE 262-10 will work great with that combo, good luck....

Last edited by 327NUT; 07-10-2007 at 03:46 PM.
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Old 07-10-2007, 04:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by b53
bogie
are you saying I am waisting my time with this combo. or do you have a sugestion?
No, but appricate I don't know what level of performance youre trying to get to. I also assumed that your combination was using restored older pre smog heads, this apparently is a bad assumption.

Looking at your parts selection, this looks like a strong street engine aimed at about 300-330 hp. At that level and with your other parts, you won't see much if any difference between 1.94 or a 2.02 combination. Additionally, you're running a manual gear box which lets you overcome the selection of too large a port/valve head by simply running the engine in a lower gear. Not that you can't with an automatic, but with an automatic you typically have bigger jumps between gear ratios and, I at least, spend a lot of time worrying about downshift loads on the sprag clutch.

Having a Jeg's part number would be helpful. I would think that this combo would work best with a port volume of 170 cc to 190 cc. Getting too large, which is easy to do, will be more port volume and potential especially with a 2.02 valve is more size than the engine needs given the cam and carb. Oversizing the port and valve relative to the cam and carb will slow the mixture speed in the runners/ports making the engine "soft" on the bottom end. Like I said you can compensate easily with a manual gear box by running a lower gear and speeding the RPMs which will speed mixture flow to over come this. That does nail fuel economy, if that's a concern. But since the cam is relatively mild and the carb on the small end of big, there is little point in designing the heads for a high reving engine, because this isn't one of those.

Actually as has been suggested the basic Vortec #12558060 would be a good to excellent choice for the short block. But doesn't provide under carb exhaust heat which can be a problem in colder climates. For this engine another excellent choice would be the old aluminum L-98 head #12464298. Plus there are many other great GMPP and after market choices.

So all I'm saying is that given the cam and carb, there's no point in over selection of the head. Something that takes about .47 inch lift, provides an intake port of 170-190 ccs, preferably has a heart/kidney shaped fast burn chamber (the L-98 is only part way there) is fine. A 1.94 valve is adequate for the short block but a 2.02 isn't so big as to cause problems, but if you don't need it, why pay for it, assuming it's more cost, if it's a cost trade of "6 of one to a half dozen of the other", it makes insufficient difference.

Overall, your combination seems like a nice strong street engine, easy to live with and has some decent performance when you get on it. I think you'll like what you're building here, I know I would.

Bogie
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Old 07-10-2007, 04:27 PM
b53 b53 is offline
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Re: 194 -202

BOGIE

thanks for the info you've given me , the under carb heat shouldn't be a problem. the car will only be driven about 3-4 months (summer) in N.H.and a mild street setup is what I was looking for,you've been very helpful thanks again.

b53
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Old 07-10-2007, 05:04 PM
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re:194-202

Quote:
Originally Posted by F-BIRD'88
get the upgraded GM L31 vortec heads, bolt them on and go. best value.
you won;t be dissapointed. Needs a vortec manifold.
The Summit part number is NAL-VORTECZZ5

this is the info. you gave me first, sorry I just didnt understand. thanks for the help
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Old 07-10-2007, 10:40 PM
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Vortecs are ok, but you already have a standard intake so why buy a head that needs a special intake that you'll have to buy and also the Vortecs require self-aligning rocker arms. If you don't have both laying on the shelf that is a pretty good cost adder right there.

The Summit # listed sells for $779.90 a pair. This is a lot of money for a thin wall factory casting that requires special components. If you are dead set on Vortec style you could go through Competition Products - RHS makes Vortec heads with improved casting that goes for $629.98 a pair assembled. Another route would be a set of Dart Platinum 180's - these are going to be nice heads and are less then $100 more then the Summit modified Vortecs. They also don't require special rockers or intakes.

The last thing to look at would be some cheap aluminum heads. The latest copy of Car Craft has a comparison between some Scoggin Dickey modified Vortecs and a set of Patriot Performance aluminum heads. Basically the Patriot's were down a little coming up through the RPM range and catching it around mid 4000rpms - by 5700 they were building more power. The cost on these is less then $100 more then the Summit heads, they will be lighter weight on the front of your car, and also will add to the "cool" factory when you open the hood. They aren't going to build the most horsepower in the world, but I think the price is pretty fair for what you are getting.
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Old 07-11-2007, 12:20 AM
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i would personaly go with the world products S/R tourquer heads! i got them and im very happy with them!
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Old 07-11-2007, 06:20 AM
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Yep F-Bird is right on no 180 Platinums - just double checked and they start at 200 with those - my mistake.

I don't know where F-Bird gets the plan to sell your Performer intake for $100 - new they only sell for around $120 - if you can get half of that you are doing well. Then to buy a comparable intake for the Vortecs you are at $150. $150-$60 = $90 extra and that is being very charitable on your resale value.

So looking at the math - you are at around $780 for a set of the Vortecs F-Bird recommended, $90 for a manifold intake, plus you have no guide plates or studs - just for sake of argument you have $20 in plates and $40 in studs so figure another $60. So your bargain vortecs are now at $930......

Now look at those patriots that were down a few points on HP and TQ up through 5000rpm - you are getting those with studs and plates and don't need an upgraded manifold and you are at $830..... So you could have aluminum heads that are darn near as good for $100 less.

To each their own - Vortecs can be a good deal, but the ones shown are not worth the money.
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Old 07-11-2007, 04:17 PM
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1.21 giga-watts???!!!!
 
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"Dart sucks" That is just ignorant! Dart is just one head manufacturer whose heads outperform there flow chart numbers. Quality of airflow and velocity mean more than raw flow numbers unless you get your rocks off by quoting numbers verbatim. Ask any of the engine builders on the site what they think about Dart heads "sucking". I sure as heck would put a set of Dart heads in stock form on my 350 before I would put on some ported 305 heads as has been suggested in the past!

You want Vortecs? Pony up the money at your local Chevy dealer or Scoggin-Dickey and get the new Bow-Tie Vortec heads in either 180 or 200 cc size. Thicker decks, take either center bolt or standard bolt covers, come with guide plates, etc. Best factory head GM has ever made according to reports. You will need a Vortec style intake but......the choice is yours.
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Old 07-11-2007, 04:31 PM
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if your cam lift is over .440 in or ex dont bother with vortecs,
i built mine because i had a machine shop and a set for a $100
vortech heads require alot of work if your going at roller rockers and high lift where as you need to machine the valve guides to clear high lift as well as machinng the press in studs to fit screw in's

from what your running i would stick to a set of 194 heads, 202 heads will generally only increase it in high rpm's and with a 600cfm carb, 194's will be a perfect set up

but if your looking for a good set of vortecs that you will be running stock rockers, or self alighning rockers, and less then .440 of valve lift, vortecs are the way to go, all the ports are gernerally smoothe and flawless from the factory
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Old 07-11-2007, 04:54 PM
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1.21 giga-watts???!!!!
 
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Running stock Vortecs with higher lift cams requires NO additional machining IF you use the new "beehive" springs from COMP or Crane. Bowtie Vortecs have already been machined at the factory for higher lift cams. C'mon guys, lets put these old saws to bed! We pay attention to advances in other speed parts and equipment, why not Vortec heads? They have been out for ten years now. Advances have been made!
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