194 or 202 - Hot Rod Forum : Hotrodders Bulletin Board
Hotrodders.com -- Hot Rod Forum



Register FAQ Search Today's Posts Unanswered Posts Auto Escrow Insurance Auto Loans
Hot Rod Forum : Hotrodders Bulletin Board > Tech Help> Engine
User Name
Password
lost password?   |   register now

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
  #1 (permalink)  
Old 07-10-2007, 11:49 AM
b53 b53 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: n.h.
Posts: 14
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
194 or 202

I have a early 70 350 sbc-30 over with stock crank and rods,comp cam-xe262-10, performer intake,600 performer carb. Im looking at two sets of heads. cast iron 64cc with 194 and150 or 67cc with 202 and 160. The motor is going in a 77 vett with a standard trans. not looking for a lot of top end being a street mach. Would one be better than the other ? why

b53

    Advertisement
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
  #2 (permalink)  
Old 07-10-2007, 12:50 PM
Registered User
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Seattle, Wa
Posts: 6,764
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 4
Thanked 426 Times in 365 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by b53
I have a early 70 350 sbc-30 over with stock crank and rods,comp cam-xe262-10, performer intake,600 performer carb. Im looking at two sets of heads. cast iron 64cc with 194 and150 or 67cc with 202 and 160. The motor is going in a 77 vett with a standard trans. not looking for a lot of top end being a street mach. Would one be better than the other ? why

b53
Given your combo, I don't think valve size will make much difference. I'd pick the one that offers the best workmanship.

In this strange world, for a performance option on these older heads probably the most effective design is the swept out chamber as for a 2.02 valve in a head that still uses a 1.94 valve. But unless you "roll-your-own", there ain't no such thing, pity.

Bogie
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #3 (permalink)  
Old 07-10-2007, 01:25 PM
b53 b53 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: n.h.
Posts: 14
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
re-194 vs 202

bogie
are you saying I am waisting my time with this combo. or do you have a sugestion?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #4 (permalink)  
Old 07-10-2007, 01:29 PM
F-BIRD'88's Avatar
Yada Yada Yada
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Ontario, Canada
Posts: 9,026
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 3
Thanked 358 Times in 354 Posts
Its really a toss up. If you want power you want to increase the airflow thru the head with porting reguardless if its a 1.94" valve or a 2.02" valve. Both are just ok witout porting, both are going to work with porting. You can get plenty of airflow with a 1.94" valve.

Need more detail on the particular heads involved. Condition, mods, chamber volume, casting number, etc etc.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #5 (permalink)  
Old 07-10-2007, 01:42 PM
b53 b53 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: n.h.
Posts: 14
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
re: 194 -202

I guess what im trying to say is I dont have any heads yet. was looking at low budget heads from JEGS or summit that would work well on this block.by the way it has flat tops
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #6 (permalink)  
Old 07-10-2007, 01:55 PM
F-BIRD'88's Avatar
Yada Yada Yada
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Ontario, Canada
Posts: 9,026
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 3
Thanked 358 Times in 354 Posts
get the upgraded GM L31 vortec heads, bolt them on and go. best value.
you won;t be dissapointed. Needs a vortec manifold.
The Summit part number is NAL-VORTECZZ5
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #7 (permalink)  
Old 07-10-2007, 02:35 PM
b53 b53 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: n.h.
Posts: 14
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
re: 194 -202

F-BIRD
where can I get the specs for the L31vh and are the heads avail. from summit? or GM.

thanks.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #8 (permalink)  
Old 07-10-2007, 02:37 PM
327NUT's Avatar
Registered User
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: So. Utah
Age: 67
Posts: 3,248
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 74 Times in 68 Posts
As Fbird says get the Vortechs, they are the best bang for the buck in a budget build up. Yes you will need to get a new int. manif. but you can sell your performer anywhere. The XE 262-10 will work great with that combo, good luck....

Last edited by 327NUT; 07-10-2007 at 02:46 PM.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #9 (permalink)  
Old 07-10-2007, 03:01 PM
Registered User
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Seattle, Wa
Posts: 6,764
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 4
Thanked 426 Times in 365 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by b53
bogie
are you saying I am waisting my time with this combo. or do you have a sugestion?
No, but appricate I don't know what level of performance youre trying to get to. I also assumed that your combination was using restored older pre smog heads, this apparently is a bad assumption.

Looking at your parts selection, this looks like a strong street engine aimed at about 300-330 hp. At that level and with your other parts, you won't see much if any difference between 1.94 or a 2.02 combination. Additionally, you're running a manual gear box which lets you overcome the selection of too large a port/valve head by simply running the engine in a lower gear. Not that you can't with an automatic, but with an automatic you typically have bigger jumps between gear ratios and, I at least, spend a lot of time worrying about downshift loads on the sprag clutch.

Having a Jeg's part number would be helpful. I would think that this combo would work best with a port volume of 170 cc to 190 cc. Getting too large, which is easy to do, will be more port volume and potential especially with a 2.02 valve is more size than the engine needs given the cam and carb. Oversizing the port and valve relative to the cam and carb will slow the mixture speed in the runners/ports making the engine "soft" on the bottom end. Like I said you can compensate easily with a manual gear box by running a lower gear and speeding the RPMs which will speed mixture flow to over come this. That does nail fuel economy, if that's a concern. But since the cam is relatively mild and the carb on the small end of big, there is little point in designing the heads for a high reving engine, because this isn't one of those.

Actually as has been suggested the basic Vortec #12558060 would be a good to excellent choice for the short block. But doesn't provide under carb exhaust heat which can be a problem in colder climates. For this engine another excellent choice would be the old aluminum L-98 head #12464298. Plus there are many other great GMPP and after market choices.

So all I'm saying is that given the cam and carb, there's no point in over selection of the head. Something that takes about .47 inch lift, provides an intake port of 170-190 ccs, preferably has a heart/kidney shaped fast burn chamber (the L-98 is only part way there) is fine. A 1.94 valve is adequate for the short block but a 2.02 isn't so big as to cause problems, but if you don't need it, why pay for it, assuming it's more cost, if it's a cost trade of "6 of one to a half dozen of the other", it makes insufficient difference.

Overall, your combination seems like a nice strong street engine, easy to live with and has some decent performance when you get on it. I think you'll like what you're building here, I know I would.

Bogie
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #10 (permalink)  
Old 07-10-2007, 03:27 PM
b53 b53 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: n.h.
Posts: 14
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Re: 194 -202

BOGIE

thanks for the info you've given me , the under carb heat shouldn't be a problem. the car will only be driven about 3-4 months (summer) in N.H.and a mild street setup is what I was looking for,you've been very helpful thanks again.

b53
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #11 (permalink)  
Old 07-10-2007, 03:40 PM
F-BIRD'88's Avatar
Yada Yada Yada
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Ontario, Canada
Posts: 9,026
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 3
Thanked 358 Times in 354 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by b53
F-BIRD
where can I get the specs for the L31vh and are the heads avail. from summit? or GM.

thanks.
"L31vh" not a clue what you are talking about.

You can get the specs on the Summit modified vortec from the summit online site. If you need further info, call summit.

GM does not sell the upgraded hi perf "ready to rock" version of these heads that Summit does. GM (your local GM dealer) only sells to OEM replacement assembly head part for the 1996-2000 l-31 truck engine. You want the Summit upgraded head with the nessessary valvetrain mods already done for ya.
The right Summit part number is , again NAL-VORTECZZ5
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #12 (permalink)  
Old 07-10-2007, 04:04 PM
b53 b53 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: n.h.
Posts: 14
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
re:194-202

Quote:
Originally Posted by F-BIRD'88
get the upgraded GM L31 vortec heads, bolt them on and go. best value.
you won;t be dissapointed. Needs a vortec manifold.
The Summit part number is NAL-VORTECZZ5

this is the info. you gave me first, sorry I just didnt understand. thanks for the help
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #13 (permalink)  
Old 07-10-2007, 09:40 PM
Registered User
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Baroda, MI
Posts: 210
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Vortecs are ok, but you already have a standard intake so why buy a head that needs a special intake that you'll have to buy and also the Vortecs require self-aligning rocker arms. If you don't have both laying on the shelf that is a pretty good cost adder right there.

The Summit # listed sells for $779.90 a pair. This is a lot of money for a thin wall factory casting that requires special components. If you are dead set on Vortec style you could go through Competition Products - RHS makes Vortec heads with improved casting that goes for $629.98 a pair assembled. Another route would be a set of Dart Platinum 180's - these are going to be nice heads and are less then $100 more then the Summit modified Vortecs. They also don't require special rockers or intakes.

The last thing to look at would be some cheap aluminum heads. The latest copy of Car Craft has a comparison between some Scoggin Dickey modified Vortecs and a set of Patriot Performance aluminum heads. Basically the Patriot's were down a little coming up through the RPM range and catching it around mid 4000rpms - by 5700 they were building more power. The cost on these is less then $100 more then the Summit heads, they will be lighter weight on the front of your car, and also will add to the "cool" factory when you open the hood. They aren't going to build the most horsepower in the world, but I think the price is pretty fair for what you are getting.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #14 (permalink)  
Old 07-10-2007, 10:52 PM
F-BIRD'88's Avatar
Yada Yada Yada
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Ontario, Canada
Posts: 9,026
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 3
Thanked 358 Times in 354 Posts
There is no such thing as a Dart Platinum 180 head. The dart 180's are not part of the "platinum series" th out of the box flow on the Dart 180's sucks. ( 208cfm)
This motor with the mild Xe262cam is a low rpm motor. Will be all done by 5500rpm but will make very good torque from off idle to that point. Overall torque is what gets the job done here. Vortec manifolds are cheap. You can sell off your performer manifold for $100+ to offset the cost.
The GM OEM casting are very reliable. Stock fleet trucks had a problem cause the factory intake manifold gasket used to leak coolant causing a loss of coolant and overheating in fleet trucks. These heads rarely fail in performance applications.. These are new heads not junkyard heads off failed truck motors.
The Summit upgraded heads are actually shipped machined for screwin studs and guide plates but are not included. So conventional rockers, or self aligning rockers work. These heads will make more torque right where you'll be using it. Don;t be swayed by a peak power number on a mag dyno test at 5700rpm. This motor will never get there. These heads are worth the little extra bother to do. They flat out perform. Have no direct experience with the RHS vortecs but they do look impressive and that is an option.
I seem to recall a Mag article on a 350SBC using the XE262 and vortecs making over 400hp and a ton of torque. What ever... But my recomendation comes from real world experience. On my third set. Seems every time I get a set some one talks me into selling them right off my motor.. LOL. then I get another set.... When someone walks up to ya and offers ya near double what ya paid for your heads in $Cash$ that tells ya something.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #15 (permalink)  
Old 07-10-2007, 11:20 PM
chevymastermind's Avatar
drive it like you stole it!
 

Last journal entry: engine
Last photo:
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: tacoma, WA
Age: 24
Posts: 185
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
i would personaly go with the world products S/R tourquer heads! i got them and im very happy with them!
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

Recent Engine posts with photos

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now

In order to be able to post messages on the Hot Rod Forum : Hotrodders Bulletin Board forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name (usually not your first and last name), your email address and other required details in the form below.
User Name:
If you do not want to register, fill this field only and the name will be used as user name for your post.
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.
Password:
Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.
Email Address:

Log-in

Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
2 questions: Edelbrock's Pro Flo injection and 194 inline power tips loyter Engine 4 04-20-2006 02:11 PM
194 Ci djcircman Engine 6 04-05-2006 08:34 AM
Chevy 194 Heads M@MRACING Engine 3 06-01-2004 08:32 PM
194 heads? chevyteen17 Engine 2 06-03-2003 11:56 PM
194 or 202's black66 Engine 6 05-17-2003 09:55 AM


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 12:46 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0 PL2
Copyright Hotrodders.com 1999 - 2012. All Rights Reserved.