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Erix 01-15-2011 09:08 AM

1941-1942 Ford Frames - Dimensions
 
New here and hope someone can help. :welcome:

I understand that the 1941 Ford frame is pretty much a one year deal while the 1942 is either similar if not identical to the 1946-1948 frames?

Does anyone have the shop manual that shows the 1941 and 1942 passenger car frame with dimensions and can either send or post here in high res?

Greatly appreciate it!

Erix

35terraplane 01-17-2011 11:44 AM

1941-1948
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Erix
New here and hope someone can help. :welcome:

I understand that the 1941 Ford frame is pretty much a one year deal while the 1942 is either similar if not identical to the 1946-1948 frames?

Does anyone have the shop manual that shows the 1941 and 1942 passenger car frame with dimensions and can either send or post here in high res?

Greatly appreciate it!

Erix

According to my info. the 1941 to 1948 were the same except for some small changes. the reason being, in 1941 they were thinking about the war, in 1946,47, 48 they didn't need to change it. From 1941 to 1948 the only real change was the front end sheet metal, The bodies were all about the same.

Bob

Erix 01-17-2011 12:15 PM

Bob, actually that isn't quite so. The 1941 is an oddball by itself. From what I have read, it had some designs of the 1939 and some of the '41 carried over to the '42.

I have since seen a "blueprint" page from a frame alignment book showing the 1941 which seems to have a different x-member closer in looks to the '39 (though I have seen photos and the 41 looks sort of like the 42), a different crossmember above the rear axle, and the rear of the frame is like 3-inches narrower than the '46-'48.

That is why I would like to see an "official" original frame diagram with dimensions from a Ford Service Manual covering the 1941-1942 models - for both years to validate what I see in the blueprint frame chart or dispel it.

Someone out there must have a copy of the manual or a Chilton's Motors Frame and Body Crash Book covering those years showing the frame diagrams?

Thanks!

Erix


Quote:

Originally Posted by 35terraplane
According to my info. the 1941 to 1948 were the same except for some small changes. the reason being, in 1941 they were thinking about the war, in 1946,47, 48 they didn't need to change it. From 1941 to 1948 the only real change was the front end sheet metal, The bodies were all about the same.

Bob


35terraplane 01-17-2011 03:30 PM

1941 - 1942 frame
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Erix
Bob, actually that isn't quite so. The 1941 is an oddball by itself. From what I have read, it had some designs of the 1939 and some of the '41 carried over to the '42.

I have since seen a "blueprint" page from a frame alignment book showing the 1941 which seems to have a different x-member closer in looks to the '39 (though I have seen photos and the 41 looks sort of like the 42), a different crossmember above the rear axle, and the rear of the frame is like 3-inches narrower than the '46-'48.

That is why I would like to see an "official" original frame diagram with dimensions from a Ford Service Manual covering the 1941-1942 models - for both years to validate what I see in the blueprint frame chart or dispel it.

Someone out there must have a copy of the manual or a Chilton's Motors Frame and Body Crash Book covering those years showing the frame diagrams?

Thanks!

Erix

The 1935 to 1940 are all the same frame, just call up 1941 frame on google, unless I read something wrong they are the same. I have a 46 coupe, I think the only thing different on the 41 is they used a 40 style axle because it was not as wide as the 42 up, that is the front end was not as wide, sheet metal, if they changed anything they might have pinched the frame in front a little, but I have seen 46 front ends on a 41 with the 46 axle, like I said before the bodies are the same, a friend of mine just built a 47 with a 41 dash, and they were the same width, the frame on the 41 up had to be wider because they didn't have full running boards like a forty. Now this is just a guess and I can't remember, even tho I had one but a 39 Mercury might be the same, as they never had full running boards on Mercuries either, but that is just a guess, I wouldn't put money on that.

Bob

Erix 01-17-2011 08:43 PM

Bob... take a look at this (smaller version of a large high res) of the 1941 Tatham Blueprint frame diagram. Does it look like the 1946-1948? Not in my Chilton book ;)

http://fototime.com/%7BCB558F51-D5DB...7D/picture.JPG

The width of the outside rails at the rear (the turn inwards) are 41-1/2" while the 1946 is 38-1/8". The rest of the side rails seem to measure about the same at other points including at the front. The rear spring mount looks different too, and of course the X brace seems to be different. What do you think in comparison? Like I said, if someone has the 1941 shop manual with the Ford drawn frame diagram with dimensions, that would help us a lot!

Erix


Quote:

Originally Posted by 35terraplane
The 1935 to 1940 are all the same frame, just call up 1941 frame on google, unless I read something wrong they are the same. I have a 46 coupe, I think the only thing different on the 41 is they used a 40 style axle because it was not as wide as the 42 up, that is the front end was not as wide, sheet metal, if they changed anything they might have pinched the frame in front a little, but I have seen 46 front ends on a 41 with the 46 axle, like I said before the bodies are the same, a friend of mine just built a 47 with a 41 dash, and they were the same width, the frame on the 41 up had to be wider because they didn't have full running boards like a forty. Now this is just a guess and I can't remember, even tho I had one but a 39 Mercury might be the same, as they never had full running boards on Mercuries either, but that is just a guess, I wouldn't put money on that.

Bob


35terraplane 01-18-2011 01:25 AM

1941 Ford frame
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Erix
Bob... take a look at this (smaller version of a large high res) of the 1941 Tatham Blueprint frame diagram. Does it look like the 1946-1948? Not in my Chilton book ;)

http://fototime.com/%7BCB558F51-D5DB...7D/picture.JPG

The width of the outside rails at the rear (the turn inwards) are 41-1/2" while the 1946 is 38-1/8". The rest of the side rails seem to measure about the same at other points including at the front. The rear spring mount looks different too, and of course the X brace seems to be different. What do you think in comparison? Like I said, if someone has the 1941 shop manual with the Ford drawn frame diagram with dimensions, that would help us a lot!

Erix

Like I said in my first post there are some changes, now they say the frame was built right though the war in 43, 44, 45, they would not have been making any changes then no time, they started building the 46 ford on the same frame in July 1945 and they didn't stop until a few weeks into 1947 the 47 ford was started in Feb. of 1947, but the car looked just like the 46, parking lights by headlights, same side trim everything. Then they moved the parking light below headlights, and made them round, then they made smooth side trim, not the ribs on it like the 46, the last thing they did was in march of 47, they changed the main color inside to maroon.
I don't know how wide my 46 is, but I would guess with that small of change it was because they put a smaller gas tank in it or a smaller lip, divide that in half that's not a world setting change, like I said the bodies are all the same.
It's hard to tell if mine is the same other than that 38 1/8 width as my x member has been changed a little to fit a 350 turbo, as far as the spring holes they might have change the fenders a wee bit, They started changeing the fenders a little bit in 1937, and by 1949 they made the big change. Like I said small changes but the same platform.

Bob

Erix 01-18-2011 07:45 AM

No biggie. Some books says the '41 is a one year only frame - like the 1940 Chevrolet Convertible frame is a one year only.

But for my purpose, if there are differences in contours and dimensions, like the rear of the frame, to me that is enough of a difference to make it a "different" frame than the other years.

Erix

matts37chev 01-18-2011 07:56 AM

what exactly are you doing/trying to figure out with this info?

Erix 01-18-2011 08:25 AM

What I have been working on the past couple of years. Collecting every make and model of automobile that had X-Frames for a website I am developing which will shed light on the history as well as photos and charts (with dimensions) - making the information available for restorers and swaps. Knowing which frames are "identical" will help group them for swappers.

So, I am always looking for people who are generous enough to scan those pages from various shop manuals and sources. So far I have every make (US) car from 1946-on and several models going back to 1929 (Cord) and 1932 (most other US makes) on including complete year 1939 and 1941 in blueprint form... but always looking for more 1932-1942 charts.

Erix


Quote:

Originally Posted by matts37chev
what exactly are you doing/trying to figure out with this info?


matts37chev 01-18-2011 08:37 AM

wow, thanks for trying to help the car community :thumbup:

Erix 01-18-2011 08:53 AM

It's been a passion for me and hope others will appreciate the efforts.

Do you have any shop manuals with frame charts with dimensions - especially cars from the 1930s?

Thanks!
Erix


Quote:

Originally Posted by matts37chev
wow, thanks for trying to help the car community :thumbup:


35terraplane 01-18-2011 11:43 AM

1941 frame dimensions
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Erix
It's been a passion for me and hope others will appreciate the efforts.

Do you have any shop manuals with frame charts with dimensions - especially cars from the 1930s?

Thanks!
Erix

I wish you would have said what you were doing, as far as the bodies going on the frames, it will work just as it I said, But if you want every little change, go to this site. they have the fords from 1926 to 1940 in cars and 1941 in p/us which are the same as the cars. they do not list the 41 , but if you call Wesscotts I think they will help you, or you can call the Ford museum, they would tell you, I think.
When you post a question, make sure you have everything in it, I don't know every dimension on all the frames, but I do know what would work with what. That's what I was going to ask you this morning, is what you were doing.

Bob

http://www.wescottsauto.com/Tech/frame_specs.html#howto

Erix 01-18-2011 03:25 PM

Nope, Wescott doesn't have any plans to add any diagrams later that 1940 anytime soon.

For people who desire to use customized frames or something that "will fit", I can see your point. But for those who restore and seek points in competition, it makes a difference to have the correct frame under the car.

But many times you can't just use something that has a similar wheelbase as there would be too many alterations involved.

I felt my question was pretty straight forward and generic... I asked a question about the different frames and if someone could post the diagrams from the Ford Shop manuals so I (and others) could see the difference between 1941-1942. The reason for the use didn't seem relevant at the time.

Erix



Quote:

Originally Posted by 35terraplane
I wish you would have said what you were doing, as far as the bodies going on the frames, it will work just as it I said, But if you want every little change, go to this site. they have the fords from 1926 to 1940 in cars and 1941 in p/us which are the same as the cars. they do not list the 41 , but if you call Wesscotts I think they will help you, or you can call the Ford museum, they would tell you, I think.
When you post a question, make sure you have everything in it, I don't know every dimension on all the frames, but I do know what would work with what. That's what I was going to ask you this morning, is what you were doing.

Bob

http://www.wescottsauto.com/Tech/frame_specs.html#howto


35terraplane 01-18-2011 04:54 PM

1941 frame
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Erix
Nope, Wescott doesn't have any plans to add any diagrams later that 1940 anytime soon.

For people who desire to use customized frames or something that "will fit", I can see your point. But for those who restore and seek points in competition, it makes a difference to have the correct frame under the car.

But many times you can't just use something that has a similar wheelbase as there would be too many alterations involved.

I felt my question was pretty straight forward and generic... I asked a question about the different frames and if someone could post the diagrams from the Ford Shop manuals so I (and others) could see the difference between 1941-1942. The reason for the use didn't seem relevant at the time.

Erix

Erix Yours is a noble task, but it is one that people can find for the Ford and GM cars, I found two manuals on fords from 1932 to 1941, and from 1942 to 1948 that said they had all the frame diagrams for each year.
The reason I answered like I did, is I'm a street rodder, I don't think about restoring a car when someone would ask about two frames, I don't think about points because the frame isn't spot on, street rodders build the frames they need or rebuild them to fit their needs. But if you are into restoring cars, I would bet if you went to a Ford or GM forum, not that I want you to leave here, but if you would ask that on a genie forum, you would have an answer pretty quick. I tried to call a friend of mine that has 3 41 fords he restored and I'm sure he could tell you more about the frame than I, but no answer. I called a couple of guys in our club that are Ford guys like me, they answered like I did. So it is all in who you ask. If it were me and you wanted to make a list of frames with dimensions I would do anything but Ford or GM. Hudson's would be a good one, They had the Essex, Terraplane. there were a lot of different cars made back then, most would be hard to find info. on.
I just think you asked the right question in the wrong place. I'm sure there are people on here that would have what you want, but most of us are street rodders and we look at a frame as weather it will flex when we but a blown Hemi in it, not if it is the exact frame for that car. our points count on the drag strip not at a show, when we go to a show, they judge the frame on how nice it is built and how nice it looks, no more, no less. Good luck again yours is a noble effort, you will gain a lot of knowledge on different cars. This is JMHO. :mwink: :D :thumbup:

Bob

Erix 01-19-2011 08:01 AM

Bob,

You make many valid points here. I was drawn to the Hot Rodders board because of a Google Search for the 1941 frame in which someone posted a question or project some time ago. With Google these days, it seems like forum posts are listed on their search almost immediately. I bet my post now will be available to search on Google within the hour.

But not to worry, my project does go beyond Ford and Chevy... in fact, I have "every" manufacturer from 1946-on and several makes pre war back to the early 1930's, including Hudson. I am still seeking the 1932-1933 Hudson and Essex models diagrams right now to finish the complete manufacturer's diagrams.

Thanks for understanding.

I have posted the same at the H.A.M.B. site to no avail so far though.

Erix

Quote:

Originally Posted by 35terraplane
Erix Yours is a noble task, but it is one that people can find for the Ford and GM cars, I found two manuals on fords from 1932 to 1941, and from 1942 to 1948 that said they had all the frame diagrams for each year.
The reason I answered like I did, is I'm a street rodder, I don't think about restoring a car when someone would ask about two frames, I don't think about points because the frame isn't spot on, street rodders build the frames they need or rebuild them to fit their needs. But if you are into restoring cars, I would bet if you went to a Ford or GM forum, not that I want you to leave here, but if you would ask that on a genie forum, you would have an answer pretty quick. I tried to call a friend of mine that has 3 41 fords he restored and I'm sure he could tell you more about the frame than I, but no answer. I called a couple of guys in our club that are Ford guys like me, they answered like I did. So it is all in who you ask. If it were me and you wanted to make a list of frames with dimensions I would do anything but Ford or GM. Hudson's would be a good one, They had the Essex, Terraplane. there were a lot of different cars made back then, most would be hard to find info. on.
I just think you asked the right question in the wrong place. I'm sure there are people on here that would have what you want, but most of us are street rodders and we look at a frame as weather it will flex when we but a blown Hemi in it, not if it is the exact frame for that car. our points count on the drag strip not at a show, when we go to a show, they judge the frame on how nice it is built and how nice it looks, no more, no less. Good luck again yours is a noble effort, you will gain a lot of knowledge on different cars. This is JMHO. :mwink: :D :thumbup:

Bob



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