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boyzntoyz 11-26-2011 11:33 AM

1950 Chev Truck - What Frame, Suspension, and all to use?
 
I'm take the body off the chassis in order to build a rod. What's the right frame, suspension, etc. for this type of project? Want this thing to look old, but sitting low with all modern amenities.
I've heard Art Morrison, but also heard their darn expensive. Other options?

NEW INTERIORS 11-26-2011 11:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by boyzntoyz
I'm take the body off the chassis in order to build a rod. What's the right frame, suspension, etc. for this type of project? Want this thing to look old, but sitting low with all modern amenities.
I've heard Art Morrison, but also heard their darn expensive. Other options?


Well... I think your going to get some good answers on this one.... :D

As far as Art Morrison's... They are the best if you ask me... The best frame you can use is the one under it... Just up grade it... If money doesn't matter.. Art can put a nice one under it... :mwink: Or you can just build a new one... That's a call you can only make... If it was me... I would just build a new one like I would want... But that's me.... ;)

NEW INTERIORS 11-26-2011 11:51 AM

Here's a frame I built for my 41 willys.... http://www.hotrodders.com/forum/maki...me-148235.html
The front and back Suspension are from Art Morrison's.. It may give you some idea's.

MARTINSR 11-26-2011 01:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by boyzntoyz
I'm take the body off the chassis in order to build a rod. What's the right frame, suspension, etc. for this type of project? Want this thing to look old, but sitting low with all modern amenities.
I've heard Art Morrison, but also heard their darn expensive. Other options?

Copy and pasted from the many other "Frame swap" threads...

Hi, my name is Brian aka MARTINSR I am the resident frame "swap" hater.

The STOCK frame is the BEST frame under your truck. I own one of those trucks by the way. I have seen them in every way imaginable.

There is NO SUCH THING as a "swap", it takes a LOT of modifications, a LOT. Can it be pulled off, yes, with a LOT of skill and time. Most "frame swaps" look like a piece of crap and the car is largely ruined.

Frame "swaps" are really "money swaps", "time swaps" and "work swaps". If the same amount of money, time and work were put into your original frame you would have a MUCH more desirable outcome and have a 1950 Chevy with a real identity.

Start looking and you will see PILES, ZILLIONS of kits for both front and rear of your Chevy.

Before you take a torch to that beautiful truck, spend a LOT of time learning about it and you will very likely forget about the "frame swaps".

The "Frame swap" is largely a trend, is it "possible" to do it well, of course there are a few guys on this site who are very talented fabricators and have done nice jobs. But to think that it is "the thing to do" or you are "saving money" or "saving time" it is simply a foolish thought. You COULD save money in some ways but just looking at the odds of all the frame swaps I have seen it is a looser and you are better off updating your original frame.

OR, how about not doing much mods if any? What are your expectations? Do you want a replacement for a late model car you are driving today and want it to drive exactly the same? Are you making a weekend warrior? If you are, why does it need to drive like a new car, would driving like a 60 year old car be more what you are after? Have you driven one of these trucks set up properly with all the original suspension? They drive real nice, do they drive like a new truck, no, but is that what you want?

I drive a 50 year old car every day and love it. I had driven a 45 year old car for a number of years and thought I needed more "comfort" so I sold it and bought a late model car. I soon found out that it wasn't any fun and driving it to work was just another commute. I recently got my 50 year I bought as a daily driver on the road and LOVE driving it everyday. Maybe this is what you would like?

Think about it long and hard before you make any big changes, you may be making a change you really don't even want just because someone told you it was the thing to do.

I have a co-worker who has one of these trucks that had a dropped axle on the front and lowering blocks on the rear. It drove VERY nice, it had the little inline 235 six cyl and was just a sweet truck. It had an oil leak and he was talked into putting a small block in it. And you couldn't have that without IRS and a new rear and on and on. He now has a so-so truck without the character it use to have. He has fought and fought with over heating problems, brake problems, and is tired of it and now looking to sell it for another OLD car. No kidding, honest, he has realized that he wanted an OLD car and now he doesn't have one, only troubles. He hasn't came out and told me he should have listened to me, but he has come close. :rolleyes: He was talking to the owner of the shop the other day about buying one of his original old cars he has. ;)

Brian

NEW INTERIORS 11-26-2011 01:56 PM

As far as the ride on 1950 Chevy truck.... They drive like a Tank... BIG tank.. :pain: If you like that put your money into the frame you have.... If you want a good ride install a Mustang II or Clip... The ride is BY far a better ride.... You can put EVERYTHING new under the front,,(Original) In it will still feel like a tank.... I'm not telling you to cut up your frame... That is only for you to decide... As far as driving something new.... Well !!! People are up dating EVERYDAY to get a better ride... You don't have to be beat to death to enjoy the ride in a old truck... If you get all happy getting beat to death in a old truck.. Build it that way...It's all come's down to what ''YOU'' enjoy,, not someone else... ;)

MARTINSR 11-26-2011 02:04 PM

Randy, when was the last time you drove a lowered rebuilt truck? I am not kidding, I was blown away at how well my co-workers truck drove. My own truck with the stock suspension I had was crap, I had butchered it by removing leaves to lower it and that sort of thing, I am sure thinking back that the shocks were shot too. But that truck of my co-workers, honestly that is when I decided to sell the frame I had put the Camaro clip on and buy a "new" original frame. It was that drive, that is all I needed.

Brian

NEW INTERIORS 11-26-2011 02:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MARTINSR
Randy, when was the last time you drove a lowered rebuilt truck? I am not kidding, I was blown away at how well my co-workers truck drove. My own truck with the stock suspension I had was crap, I had butchered it by removing leaves to lower it and that sort of thing, I am sure thinking back that the shocks were shot too. But that truck of my co-workers, honestly that is when I decided to sell the frame I had put the Camaro clip on and buy a "new" original frame. It was that drive, that is all I needed.

Brian

Well Brian... I have to say ..I say nothing was ever done to a Original suspension that ever made me think of ever doing it.. I do know you can make it ride a little better,, But no where close to a Mustang II or a clip... When I did mine I think 20 years ago.. It drove like nothing I can explain... The truck didn't lean over when you made a turn,, It was bad a**... I will never own a Original one.... NEVER !!! All he has to do before he cut's anything is ride in one that was done and one that wasn't... I can already tell you which one he will pick... I'm not as old as you Brian.. But I have been doing this for a long time now.. And I can say... YOU are the only one I ever ran across that has something to say bad about them... I'm with you 100% on a frame swap.. But not on the Mustang II or the ''RIGHT'' clip.. That's all.. ;)

When I hear someone say they don't like the ride they got from their clip job... It only makes me think something was done wrong when it was installed.. I never heard anyone ever say I wish I would have never done that to my truck... Never... Just you Brian.. ;)

By all means I'm not trying to call you out Brain.. Just trying to figure you out.. That's all.. :thumbup:

MARTINSR 11-26-2011 02:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NEW INTERIORS
Well Brian... I have to say ..I say nothing was ever done to a Original suspension that ever made me think of ever doing it.. I do know you can make it ride a little better,, But no where close to a Mustang II or a clip... When I did mine I think 20 years ago.. It drove like nothing I can explain... The truck didn't lean over when you made a turn,, It was bad a**... I will never own a Original one.... NEVER !!! All he has to do before he cut's anything is ride in one that was done and one that wasn't... I can already tell you which one he will pick... I'm not as old as you Brian.. But I have been doing this for a long time now.. And I can say... YOU are the only one I ever ran across that has something to say bad about them... I'm with you 100% on a frame swap.. But not on the Mustang II or the ''RIGHT'' clip.. That's all.. ;)

When I hear someone say they don't like the ride they got from their clip job... It only makes me think something was done wrong when it was installed.. I never heard anyone ever say I wish I would have never done that to my truck... Never... Just you Brian.. ;)

By all means I'm not trying to call you out Brain.. Just trying to figure you out.. That's all.. :thumbup:

You are thinking about this way too much. I did a frame clip personally that I never drove. So I am not saying nor have I ever said that it didn't drive as good as I expected or it drove too good and ruined the cool rattling my fillings out of my teeth that I loved so much. :D What I did was installed a clip, my first one like many people who ask about them. The difference was I had a lot of experience in fab and had done many engine swaps and frame off builds and what not. So I figure I have a leg up on other "first timers" as far as I have done one, but with some experience that should have made it pretty easy. It was NOT easy, and after the experience I learned that it is not the way to go when I saw what I had to do to my inner fender, rad support and bumper mounting. It made no sense to me after I sat back and looked at it. I drove my co-workers truck and it drove in my opinion like a 15 year old S-10, and that was good enough for me. I decided I didn't want to further ruin my truck and I didn't want to have to be limited on the wheel size being the Camaro clip was too wide, I didn't want the tires hitting the fenders, I didn't want to have to go to a cross flow rad, I didn't want to spend any more time on it when that stock but nice lowered truck drove so nice.

Like I have said before, you are EXTREMELY talented and don't give yourself the credit you should. What you can do most only dream of. It's like Eric Clapton telling me who dabbles in guitar to go up on stage and play a solo with him. Telling someone to cut their frame in half and install a clip is like Clapton telling me to jump up on stage. And that is going to leave me terribly discouraged and wishing I had just dreamt about playing on stage instead of actually doing it.

It's like stripping paint from a car, I will preach and preach to newbes DON'T TO IT. Not because it can't be done, hell I can do it with my eyes closed. I can then shoot it with epoxy primer, in a heart beat, set up the gun in my sleep. But the newbe, he is in for some BIG trouble stripping his car down to bare metal and not getting it back into primer for months, BIG trouble and it can ruin a guys spirit, it can knock him right out of this hobby. Just because it comes as easy as putting on my shoes to me doesn't mean I am going to recommend others to do it.

This is why I make it clear in my don't do the frame swap talk. :D I clearly state that the poster needs to find out for himself is it really what he wants. Personally, I can get in my wifes car and drive something with AC and power discs and go out and hit a hundred down the freeway. My personally car doesn't need all those things and I am THRILLED like you can't believe to be out of my hot rod Ford SHO that handles like sports car. I just like the feeling of driving an old car. That is my opinion and I want to be sure the poster is clear on what he wants because cutting the frame in half is a BIG dedication to a project.

Brian

NEW INTERIORS 11-26-2011 03:05 PM

I hear ya !!! :thumbup:

This is where I think you went wrong..''I did a frame clip personally that I never drove''

If you would have drove it,,you would have never turned back.. :mwink:

I know what you mean about someone messing their frame up.. I seen ONE done wrong... The clip came out nice.. But it was set wrong..

I guess the thing I see(or know) is it's steel,, You can't mess up steel if you know how to weld... Wood !!! Now that's a whole different story... But steel you can't... It's always fixable... Now I will push someone more to installing a Mustang II before doing a clip.. If money isn't a problem.... If money is... I will get them to do a clip...

On a 1950 truck.. I would not use the camaro.. Yes it's a little wide if you want to drop it low.. The Nova is a little better.. But the Monte Carlo,Regal, Cutlass, or the best to use.. If you ask me..Only 58'' Hub to hub..

I want to put a Mustang II in my coupe... But my money keeps telling me different,,, So It's looking like a clip is gone in it so far.. I wish I could do the Mustang II..But right now I can't.....

What I like the most about doing the clip... I can set the ride height where I want it... By zeeing the frame as much as I want...So Again,, It's up to him What he want's in the end.. ;)

Centerline 11-26-2011 03:10 PM

Stock frame with a Heidts Mustang II IFS. Power steering with big GM disks. Rear suspension - Dodge Caravan rear springs modified to sit parallel with home made Cal-Trac traction bars. Rear is a '78 Firebird 10 bolt with drum brakes. Rides like a new truck and with the big 11" GM disks up front stops like one too.

This setup is fine, as long as you don't intend to use your truck as a truck and just want a comfortable cruiser.

http://www.hotrodsandhemis.com/FRAME1.JPG

http://www.hotrodsandhemis.com/Latest/MVC-011Fa.JPG

Centerline
HotRodsAndHemis.com

Top ten reasons racing is better then sex:

1)You're expected to burn rubber, 2) It's OK to be a spectator, 3) There is a pit crew to help you out, 4) The faster you are the better you are, 5) It can last for several hours, 6) It's acceptable to tailgate, 7) You're supposed to finish first, 8) Earplugs are OK to drown out noise, 9) You don't have to kiss the race car, and 10) You get a trophy when your done.

NEW INTERIORS 11-26-2011 03:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Centerline
Stock frame with a Heidts Mustang II IFS. Rear suspension - Dodge Caravan rear springs modified to sit parallel and a '78 Firebird 10 bolt rear. Rides like a new truck and with the big 11" GM disks up front stops like one too.

http://www.hotrodsandhemis.com/FRAME1.JPG

http://www.hotrodsandhemis.com/Latest/MVC-011Fa.JPG

Centerline
HotRodsAndHemis.com


Look's very nice Centerline... :thumbup:

My first choice would be..
1.Build a whole new frame..
Or
2.Install a Mustang II ..
Or
3.Install a clip...

This is my way of thinking.. :thumbup:

MARTINSR 11-26-2011 03:21 PM

Now I see no reason to build a new frame, unless again, what are the expectations? If ones expectations is a show car with mirrors under it, new frame time. But other than that modifying the stock frame which is essentially a pair of 2x5 rectangular "tubing" rails with a few crossmembers. Of course it's 2x5 channel but it works the same, unless of course you are adding a LOT of power and sticky tires. But for your average hot V8 that thick 2x5 channel is plenty.

Brian

NEW INTERIORS 11-26-2011 03:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MARTINSR
Now I see no reason to build a new frame, unless again, what are the expectations? If ones expectations is a show car with mirrors under it, new frame time. But other than that modifying the stock frame which is essentially a pair of 2x5 rectangular "tubing" rails with a few crossmembers. Of course it's 2x5 channel but it works the same, unless of course you are adding a LOT of power and sticky tires. But for your average hot V8 that thick 2x5 channel is plenty.

Brian

The reason I Like a new frame is.. For one everyone usually want's to box their frame,,
Well !!!
if your going to go through the trouble to do that... Just use tubing,,
Much easier, :thumbup:
and if your also wanting to add a Mustang II,, Much easier, :thumbup:
Then... If you want it to sit low.. You can zee the frame rails while your at it.. :thumbup:

So by doing a new frame you can get a lot of good things from doing it new... Back to it's all in what you want from it.. The list can go on and on.. :D


If your looking to put a nice motor and like the look of a box frame... The truck frame is so easy to just use tubing to do the frame,, Straight runs.. Very easy to do... If your not looking to Zee the frame any.. ;)

MARTINSR 11-26-2011 08:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NEW INTERIORS
The reason I Like a new frame is.. For one everyone usually want's to box their frame,,
Well !!!
if your going to go through the trouble to do that... Just use tubing,,
Much easier, :thumbup:
and if your also wanting to add a Mustang II,, Much easier, :thumbup:
Then... If you want it to sit low.. You can zee the frame rails while your at it.. :thumbup:

So by doing a new frame you can get a lot of good things from doing it new... Back to it's all in what you want from it.. The list can go on and on.. :D


If your looking to put a nice motor and like the look of a box frame... The truck frame is so easy to just use tubing to do the frame,, Straight runs.. Very easy to do... If your not looking to Zee the frame any.. ;)

I'm with you if you want all that, heck yes making a new one would be easier. That is one of the great lies about frame swapping, that frame was SOOOOOOO simple, it had such basic shape. You could make it very easily, even a first timer could make one easier than swapping in a modern frame that is way more complex in shape.

Brian

Brian

ogre 11-27-2011 11:13 AM

no one suggesting the s-10 frame??? the crescent wrench of frames, one size fits all :evil:

the best frame for your truck is the stock frame. a mustII x-member and a flipped axle in back on stock springs will ride well. a c-notch and minus a few of the heavier spring leaves will smooth out the ride a bit.

box the full length to stiffen the frame a bit. for rear end choices go to chevytrucks.org scroll way down and you will see options.

martinsr and new interiors need to calm down a bit and take their meds... :spank:


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