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Old 08-27-2009, 03:33 PM
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1950 shoe box I need an engine swap

I got a 1950 shoe box this week. I was thinking of putting a Chevy 350 in it. I understand that it is an expensive. That you need a certain $330 Nova oil pan. Maybe a different oil pump more expense. Does any one know of an engine swap that is not too expensive to do? Maybe a Ford or Chevy 6 cylinder? Open to all suggestions that does not have the word Flathead in it.

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Old 08-27-2009, 09:55 PM
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Ford Small block 302 with the more or less standard (1979-earlier) front sump pan??
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Old 08-28-2009, 12:20 AM
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Here's a Street Rodder article that lines out a bunch of changes to the shoebox Ford....
http://www.streetrodderweb.com/tech/...nts/index.html
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Old 08-28-2009, 12:43 AM
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Budget Concerns ??

I think from your post that your funds may be an issue so being frugal as I am here's my 2 cents.You don't need the Fatman steering conversion if your stock suspension is OK as that will eat a hole in your wallet in a heartbeat.Use the Opies mount kit available on "evilbay" for the 5.0 Ford the dual sump pan is on 5.0 Fords 1986-92 these are also roller cam motors,you will have clearance issues with the tunnel if you run an AOD transmission,they will clear in a '51.Best bet is a C-4 automatic it will clear nicely,as long as you are not beating it up drag racing you could get by with the '50 rear end,pm me for more info on that.
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Old 08-28-2009, 07:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JeffB
I think from your post that your funds may be an issue so being frugal as I am here's my 2 cents.You don't need the Fatman steering conversion if your stock suspension is OK as that will eat a hole in your wallet in a heartbeat.Use the Opies mount kit available on "evilbay" for the 5.0 Ford the dual sump pan is on 5.0 Fords 1986-92 these are also roller cam motors,you will have clearance issues with the tunnel if you run an AOD transmission,they will clear in a '51.Best bet is a C-4 automatic it will clear nicely,as long as you are not beating it up drag racing you could get by with the '50 rear end,pm me for more info on that.
Well I could spend more money, but to me that takes away the challenge, besides that I got $30,000 in my '29 now. (new paint job). I like the to use a Chev 350 as I have one sitting there now. I would like to use the original rear, but I have a 10 bolt posi, but I was sort saving that for my next project. I am only driving this sensible manner Some where in my head I have seen where some one cut a tunnel(elongated parallel to the ground) into an oil pan for the tie rod to go through. My mechanic is a BIG mustang guy, he has a 87? that just went into the 11's and now is goal is the 10's. I will talk to him and see what his contacts have. Thanks for the leads
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Old 08-28-2009, 07:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ericnova72
Ford Small block 302 with the more or less standard (1979-earlier) front sump pan??
That is a good lead. Thanks
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Old 08-28-2009, 10:47 AM
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There is also a notched rear sump Chevy II pan for racing, looks like a regular rear sump but has a steering link clearance notch on the front half of the sump. Look on Ebay, there are usually several in the $70 range and come with the pick-up. We bought one last year 6 qt flared sump, it worked fine, good solid piece. It might be something you can work with, I mentioned the 302 before because I hate crossbreeds .
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Old 08-29-2009, 08:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ericnova72
There is also a notched rear sump Chevy II pan for racing, looks like a regular rear sump but has a steering link clearance notch on the front half of the sump. Look on Ebay, there are usually several in the $70 range and come with the pick-up. We bought one last year 6 qt flared sump, it worked fine, good solid piece. It might be something you can work with, I mentioned the 302 before because I hate crossbreeds .
I found it, $59.00 and $18 for shipping, that is well in the budget. When I started in hot rodding there was the 283 and the 312 to chose from and I learned the "SBC method" i.e. of putting a small block Chevy into everything from an Allard to a Zephyr.
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Old 08-29-2009, 08:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by techinspector1
Here's a Street Rodder article that lines out a bunch of changes to the shoebox Ford....
http://www.streetrodderweb.com/tech/...nts/index.html

Thanks for the info. I am going to Lead East (50's show) in NJ this week and I will take a lot photos that should help too.
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Old 08-31-2009, 05:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JeffB
I think from your post that your funds may be an issue so being frugal as I am here's my 2 cents.You don't need the Fatman steering conversion if your stock suspension is OK as that will eat a hole in your wallet in a heartbeat.Use the Opies mount kit available on "evilbay" for the 5.0 Ford the dual sump pan is on 5.0 Fords 1986-92 these are also roller cam motors,you will have clearance issues with the tunnel if you run an AOD transmission,they will clear in a '51.Best bet is a C-4 automatic it will clear nicely,as long as you are not beating it up drag racing you could get by with the '50 rear end,pm me for more info on that.
While I could not contact Opie's either a wrong number or fax machine came on I did find Butch's Hot Rod Parts and he has a motor mount and tranny mount for a 350 SBC into a 50 Ford. Thanks for everyone's help.
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Old 09-01-2010, 07:03 AM
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50 shoebox motor swap

im new to this discussin form i have a 50 ford and want a motor swap my flatt head 6 to a 73 FORD 302 MOTOR / 3-SPEED TRANS out of a van can this be done? will it fit what motor mounts to use tranny bolt up? how hard or easy to do a swap like this could really need some help thanks john
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Old 09-01-2010, 07:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 909johnjohn
im new to this discussin form i have a 50 ford and want a motor swap my flatt head 6 to a 73 FORD 302 MOTOR / 3-SPEED TRANS out of a van can this be done? will it fit what motor mounts to use tranny bolt up? how hard or easy to do a swap like this could really need some help thanks john
John, there are 101 little things that will jump up and bite you on an engine swap if you don't know what to anticipate.
First off, get a couple of books and read through them thoroughly. That's the cheap and easy way to find out how to do stuff like this. Here's a good start for you....
http://www.amazon.com/Engine-Swappin...3390018&sr=1-1
http://www.amazon.com/Practical-Engi...3390115&sr=1-3
http://www.amazon.com/Petersens-Engi...3390115&sr=1-4
http://www.amazon.com/Complete-Book-...3390115&sr=1-7
http://www.amazon.com/Complete-Book-...390115&sr=1-10

But I'll give you an overview of the procedure.
Block the vehicle up off the floor so you can have room to get under and around. Use approved safety jacks on all corners and maybe even a couple in the middle of the car at the sills. You can't have too much protection. You want the attitude of the car the same as it will be when running, level, front rake, lowered rear or whatever. Open the door and lay a level on each door sill for the front to rear angle. For side to side, use a long level frame rail to frame rail or on one of the crossmembers that you know has not been damaged. Doesn't hurt to check the level at a couple of different places on the car.

It will be much easier if you remove all the front sheet metal. The problem with doing this is that some fellows fail to document where all the shims go, then they're in trouble when it comes time to bolt the front back on. As you disassemble the front, bag and tag the shims or shim packs as you remove them and make clear notes where they go on the car. If you want to leave all that on the car, you can do it, it's just easier with it all removed. But yeah, you can do it with just the hood removed. Use a scratch awl to score marks around the hinges before you unbolt anything so you will be able to put the hood right back where it was.

Do the repair work to the engine, clutch and transmission before you begin. You don't want to have to remove the whole mess to replace a clutch disc or throwout bearing after it's all in.

Bolt up stock motor mounts to the block and the trans case. Drop the motor/trans into place. Make up some means of keeping the unit in place once you get it where you want it. Use plenty of wood blocks or other stuff you have laying around. CAUTION/WARNING: NEVER USE CONCRETE BLOCKS OR CLAY BRICKS FOR SUPPORTING ANY PART OF THE CAR OR ENGINE. THEY WILL SHATTER AND COULD RESULT IN INJURY OR DEATH.

You want the carburetor mounting pad of the intake manifold to be level with the ground fore/aft and side to side. Use a bubble level on the pad. Never mind what the attitude of the car is, level the motor by the carb pad on the intake manifold. You can move the motor/trans unit sideways off the centerline if you want to, to miss the steering box or whatever. The trick is, you want the whole unit to be parallel with the centerline of the car (90 degrees to the centerline of the rear axles). You do not want the engine/trans skewed in there. You want the centerline of the crankshaft to be parallel with the centerline of the car. If you move the motor to the passenger side of the car, then move the transmission tailshaft the same amount to the passenger side. It's difficult to explain properly without a diagram to show you, but maybe you will figure what I'm saying.

Pay attention to the motor against the firewall. You want to leave enough room to get a socket on the bellhousing bolts to drop the housing later on for repairs. Also, you want some room between the top of the bellhousing and the bottom of the tunnel to allow radiator air to escape and cool things down.

Probably the easiest way to install the motor is to use a custom crossmember that utilizes the motor mount brackets on it. Here's an example...
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/TRD-4819/
You can trim the tube if you end up with the motor moved laterally. Just remember that the clearance between the trans or bellhousing will become tighter also, so don't forget to leave room between the tunnel/floor of the car for everything to fit and work properly. If the stock engine crossmember is in the way, chop it out of there. You can add a crossmember or two once you have the motor located with the tubular mount.
Same thing with the transmission mount. Chop the stock crossmember out and use a tubular aftermarket piece.
http://www.speedwaymotors.com/Straig...ount,3279.html
When I do an engine swap, I bolt headers onto the motor before finalizing the mounts so that I know they'll fit. If there is any sheetmetal in the way, cut it out with a Sawzall or other tool. Headers are too important to allow something to get in their way in my opinion.

Go to a boneyard and choose a mid-70's car that had a 302 in it. Cut the radiator core support out of it right next to the fenders. Also get the radiator, shroud, fan clutch and OEM steel fan. Once the motor is in place and finalized, cut the stock core support out of the car and weld in the boneyard core support once you have the water pump, fan, and fan clutch attached to the motor. you will want the radiator attached to the support and the shroud in place as well. Position the fan blades in the center of the shroud hole with the fan halfway in and halfway out of the shroud hole. Purchase a brand new radiator and fan clutch for the year of the core support you got at the boneyard. This will assure a bulletproof installation. At least it always has for me.

OK, there's an overview. Do some reading and get to it.

Last edited by techinspector1; 09-01-2010 at 08:08 PM.
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Old 09-01-2010, 08:35 PM
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The operation of this forum will not allow you to edit your post after a short time. I have no idea why that is, but will add something to the above post here.

You will need to re-position the hood latch onto the new core support. I usually use some 1/2" square tubing to make a sort of divining rod looking affair that will bolt to the fender bolt holes on each side of the body that will locate where the latch goes. If you think about this, you'll figure it out.
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Old 09-02-2010, 07:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 909johnjohn
im new to this discussion form i have a 50 ford and want a motor swap my flat head 6 to a 73 FORD 302 MOTOR / 3-SPEED TRANS out of a van can this be done? will it fit what motor mounts to use tranny bolt up? how hard or easy to do a swap like this could really need some help thanks john
The advice given to you is extremely sound. I can not add to it. I still have my '50 sitting in storage and have not done any thing to it. I am trying to finish a roadster and keep my 29 and Vette on the road all at the same time. What I will hopefully do is to cut a front clip out of 80's Camaro as I want a SBC Chevy in it. I will say from what I have read it is easier to put in a SBC Ford as a 302 oil pan from certain Mustangs fits nicely. Good luck, Jack ( Read a lot FIRST)
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Old 09-09-2010, 06:42 PM
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80s camaro is too wide ..my buddy frank has a 76 camaro clip , otherthan being snot welded on , the front tires stick out ..best subframe would be 67-69 camaro and firebird or 68-74 nova omega ventura apollo
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