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Old 09-27-2005, 08:41 AM
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1960 corvette rochester fuel injection

Hi Guys,
any rochester fuel injection gurus out there?
I am helping a friend with a 1960 vette with a 327 and the rochester fuel injection. I have replaced the low pressure fuel pump. The guy that installed the new one actually bent the fuel pump pushrod over 1/2"!!!. Installed new pushrod, verified cam lobe was not wiped out. Got fuel to the float bowl. float level checks out. all diagphragms check out with no tears. Fuel pump drive is good. no fuel on the high pressure side if you crack an injector line. even tried running the pump with a drill motor on the pump drive-no fuel. Any ideas what could cause the lack of fuel? everything else checked out, can fire the engine by spraying fuel into the intake.

Last edited by ratlover; 09-27-2005 at 08:41 PM. Reason: typo
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Old 09-27-2005, 05:21 PM
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http://www.corvetteactioncenter.com/...s=&forumid=206

http://www.corvettearchive.com/

http://forums.corvetteforum.com/forumdisplay.php?f=4

Not exactly a resounding response, huh? Well I can't be of any help except to offer these as places to try looking.....The archive may have some other links to pursue, the forums you may have to join to ask specifically--I did a little searching but didn't find much.
Good luck.
John
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Old 09-27-2005, 05:43 PM
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Thanks Bud.
I have to admit this was my first experience tearing into one. They are getting pretty few and far between. Fortunately there were 2 vettes side by side with the old school injection. It kind of baffles me that with this injection it was a shower of fuel coming into the intake port whether the intake valve was open or not. I can only assume that there was a considerable amount of cylinder wash with these motors due to this feature, especially at idle when the valve events had more time in between. I had a corvette service manual at my disposal, but short of a total teardown there was no real way to determine if the gear pump was in decent shape. There was also a fuel well that was the substitute for an accelerator pump. It's just nuts and bolts dammit! a very simple system which should be subject to the same mechanical principles as any other machine gimme a hammer! Just kidding, these were very beautiful and well preserved machines which were a real priviledge to work on. God forbid I scratch or spill something.
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Old 06-14-2013, 11:49 AM
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I wish I could help, but I'm strictly an efi kind of guy. Rochester Ramjet is pretty scary. So is the solid flat lifter cam that goes with it. I admire your courage.
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Old 06-14-2013, 12:40 PM
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My late high school buddy had a '36 Ford with a 301 CI Chevrolet V8 and Ram Jet Fuel Injection. He bought the FI set up from the Arthur Brothers Chevrolet dealership in Comanche TX. In 1957, the Arthur Brothers ordered two new 1957 Chevrolet Bel Airs with Ram Jet Fuel Inection. They had to trailer those cars to Fort Worth to get the FI worked on. Finally they removed the fuel injection and installed two Carter WCFB 4-barrel carbs on each '57 Chevy. My friend bought one of the Arthur Brothers' fuel injection set ups and worked on it for ten years and never got it running right.

In 1975, he sent it to Jack Podell in South Bend Indiana and had it completely rebuilt and adjusted. After he had the FI rebuilt, the '36 Ford ran excellent as a daily driver but not so well at the strip. My '56 Chevy Del Ray with a 283 and 3-speed OD could beat him every time. Jack Podell has been in business since 1970 and is probably the best Rochester FI guru in the U.S.

Jack Podell Fuel Injections
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Old 06-14-2013, 05:10 PM
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Be advised..You must use VP-110 racing fuel with 1957-1965 Rochester Ram Jet Fuel injection.

It is nearly impossible to use pump gas with 1957-1965 Rochester Ram Jet Fuel Injection and that is not due to the low octane rating but is due to the formulation of pump gas. Pump gas burns leaner below 1,000 RPM and above 4,000 RPM than racing fuel. Pump gas runs rich between 1,000 RPM and 4,000 RPM, or at cruising speed. Above 5,000 RPM, the Air Fuel Ratio of pump gas is 18:1 and that is enough to burn pistons if you don't get your foot out of it.
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Old 06-15-2013, 08:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MouseFink View Post
Be advised..You must use VP-110 racing fuel with 1957-1965 Rochester Ram Jet Fuel injection.

It is nearly impossible to use pump gas with 1957-1965 Rochester Ram Jet Fuel Injection and that is not due to the low octane rating but is due to the formulation of pump gas. Pump gas burns leaner below 1,000 RPM and above 4,000 RPM than racing fuel. Pump gas runs rich between 1,000 RPM and 4,000 RPM, or at cruising speed. Above 5,000 RPM, the Air Fuel Ratio of pump gas is 18:1 and that is enough to burn pistons if you don't get your foot out of it.
If that's the case should we all be using race gas in our high performance engines that see over 5000 RPM. I have 9-1 283 we run wide open for 10 minutes at a time, at well over 5000 RPM. Or are you referring just to Rochester fuel injection?
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Old 06-16-2013, 06:40 AM
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1957-1965 Chevrolet Ram Jet Fuel Injection is not computer controlled.
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Old 06-17-2013, 01:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ratlover View Post
Hi Guys,
any rochester fuel injection gurus out there?
I am helping a friend with a 1960 vette with a 327 and the rochester fuel injection. I have replaced the low pressure fuel pump. The guy that installed the new one actually bent the fuel pump pushrod over 1/2"!!!. Installed new pushrod, verified cam lobe was not wiped out. Got fuel to the float bowl. float level checks out. all diagphragms check out with no tears. Fuel pump drive is good. no fuel on the high pressure side if you crack an injector line. even tried running the pump with a drill motor on the pump drive-no fuel. Any ideas what could cause the lack of fuel? everything else checked out, can fire the engine by spraying fuel into the intake.
If the enigne is not running there should be no fuel at the injectors, it should all be in the bypass system if there is fuel in the reservour. This is a continous flow system on the injector side that puddles metered fuel till the intake valve opens to injest that fuel and air which is mixed inside the cylinder. This, with the exception that is is electronically managed, is how the TPI system of the 1980's and early 90's worked, it was not sequential beyond left side or right side sprays alternatly nor was it timed to the valve opening only in injector duration at continous pressure. Pressure is where the old mechanical system is much different, it does not time anything it simply varies pressure as a means of controlling mixture ratio.

The idle system on the mechanical Rochester is also pretty weird and often problematic, it is devorced from main metering. So I guess the next question is will the engine start and idle?. Now all I'm going to say is it's been decades since I've been in one of these so I'm not trying to sound like an expert with advice to give. To go much deeper I'd have to go find some old mantenance books that I might still have buried somewhere. This really takes finding an expert, there are a handful scattered about the U.S. they can be found on Google. The fact that most of these systems were replaced with carbs back in the late 50s and through the 60's and 70's says a lot about the lack of technological knowledge outside the dealer's shop at that time.

Bogie
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Old 06-19-2013, 08:31 AM
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Yes Bogie, the 1985-1992 F-body/1985-92 TPI were all batch fire which has all 8 injectors firing at once, the 1992-93 Vette/1993 F-body LT1 were Bank fired and both were fired without regard to the intake valve position.

The 1987-96 TBI trucks, and 82&84 Vette/82/83 Crossfire F-bodies also introduced fuel without regard to valve position.

This requires a camshaft position sensor and was introduced in teh fullsize GM trucks in 1996 in the Vortec 4.3/5.0/5.7 and 7.4 engines, and in the GM V8 cars in teh 1994 LT1 F/body/Vette with aluminum heads, and the 5.7 LT1 and 4.3 L99 V8's in the Caprice/Impala SS/Cadillacs in 1994.

I was just reading my 1957 Chevrolet Engineering achievements book last night, and that Rochester Mech Fuel Injefction is very, very complicated. Different parts for warm idle/cold idle, acceleration enrichment, cruise fueling and then decelleration fueling which actually cuts off teh fuel supply(very similar to Deceleration Fuel Cut Off DFCO on modern fuel injection engines).



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I recently read an article that included a dyno test between a 1964-65 Ramjet L84 375hp/327 and the exact same engine but with a single 4bbl carb, the 1964-65 L76 365hp/327. Both these engines stock had the same heads, cam and exhausts. It helps that inside the Rocjester Ramjet intake is poretty much a tunnel ram. My Dad bought an L76 crate engine back in the 60's and installed it in his 1957 Chev 2 door hardtop with a 4 speed and went cruising.

Here is that article
L84 Fuelie Motor On Engine Dyno - Vette Magazine


All of the following engines were available in passenger cars and Corvettes, except the 265 was NOT available in the Corvette in 1957

2 bbl carbs
6cyl 235 blue flame 140hp@4200rpm/210lb/ft@2400rpm 8:1CR single exhaust
Turbo fire 265 162hp@4400rpm/257 lb/ft@2400rpm 8.0:1CR single exhaust
Turbo Fire 283 185hp@4800rpm/275lb/ft@2400rpm8.0:1CR single exhaust

4bbl. carb
Super Turbo Fire 220hp@4800rpm/300lb/ft@3000rpm 8.5:1CR dual exhaust

2x4bbl carbs or Rocjester Mechanical Fuel Injection
Corvette 2x4 245hp@@5000rpm/300lb/ft@3800rpm 9.5:1CR duals
Corvette Mech FI 250hp@5000rpm/305lb/ft@3800rpm 9.5:1CR duals
Competition cam 2x4 carb 270hp@6000rpm/285lb/ft@4200rpm 9.5:1CR duals
Competition cam with Mech FI 283hp@6200rpm/290lb/ft@4400rpm 10.5:1CR

In 1957 just 1,040 Corvettes and only 664 of these were equipped with the 4 speed manual.
As taken from an excerpt in the book CORVETTE: Sports Car Superstar:[I] “the '57 Corvette delivered certifiably staggering performance. Motor Trend clocked a 250-bhp fuelie at just 7.2 seconds in the 0-60 mph sprint. The 283-bhp version was even more formidable, with Road & Track running the same test in a four-speed with the short 4.11:1 final drive in just 5.7 seconds; it breezed through the quarter-mile in 14.3 seconds at better than 90 mph and sailed on to a maximum 132 mph.”


peace
Hog
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