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Old 07-25-2013, 12:32 PM
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1964 327 build need advice

i ve got a 1964 327 small block im trying to get as much hp as possible out of it around 450 if possible what parts do i need to use if somebody could just tell me all the parts i need im building from block up

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Old 07-25-2013, 01:40 PM
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Why that engine? Your answer affects your build parameters a LOT.
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Old 07-25-2013, 03:00 PM
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factory head castings wont get you there without a lot of CR, which means needing race gas in todays world. Id get some 200cc aluminum heads, and do your best to make them look factory-ish under paint. Have a Performer RPM (non airgap) or Holley 300-36 modified for the oill fil tube and use the 65-era fill tube EGR system. Solid roller cam and a 750 Holley. Thats a good start. Or build a 383 stroker and put 327 valve covers and aircleaner on it
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Old 07-25-2013, 03:24 PM
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thanks for the help i plan on boring it out 60 0ver what kind of spee do u think il get out of it withthe right gears and transmission the reason i wanted this engine is cuz it was my grandfathers he always wanted to build it to 450hp but he never got to

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Old 07-25-2013, 03:43 PM
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what kind of pistons and rods should i use
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Old 07-25-2013, 05:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chevy1998 View Post
i ve got a 1964 327 small block im trying to get as much hp as possible out of it around 450 if possible what parts do i need to use if somebody could just tell me all the parts i need im building from block up
If you're not tied to rebuilding it as a 327, making the block into a 350 makes 450 horses a lot easier to get at.

By enlarge the days of really long winded cams and super high compression as solutions to make power a long gone. Todays fuels won't support the needed compression and todays oils won't support that big of a flat tappet cam and yesterdays heads don't burn efficiently enough without the big cams and huge compression ratios.

Today we need to put more "rocket science" into our thinking and there is a lot of help out there. But even with that in mind chevy gave up on the old small block and built a new one from a clean sheet of paper, so the message here is even with all that's availble for the old SBC, you can only get so far. Where has this come, well suffice it to say that today's showroom stock Silverado will blow the doors off the best 1960's era showroom stock Corvette and get 25 miles to gallon while putting out exhaust that's cleaner than your pizza breath.

So where does this go? It goes to moden heads which pretty much starts with the L31 Vortec of 1996. There are many modern versions of this heads essential elements available in iron and aluminum for GMPP and the aftermarket. You need to take the time to start researching this as the choices are huge from cheap but effective Chinese knock offs, to the cutting edge state of the art domestics and sea of options between. These heads feature what is called a heart or kidney shaped chamber that is kept a small as possible, with the spark plug jammed toward the center just short of being hit by the opening of the valves with beaks and vortex generating shapes to direct the mixture, remix fuel and air, and swirl it around the chamber. These things are worth from 30 to 60 horesepower over the best 1960/70 era heads by just bolting them on. Without some form of supercharge or nitrous the only way to get a Gen I SBC into the plus 400 horses range is either give it big block displacement or use modern heads, even super big displacement will still need modern heads because they also have the air flow to support these size small blocks where the older heads aren't even close and can't get there by porting them. Aluminum heads are a better choice than iron. Aluminum transfers heat faster than iron, this lets if not forces you to use higher compression ratios by at least one. But it turns out due to kind of a instant shock therapy in the compression that you can actually run into ratios that not only equal the thermal efficiency of iron but let you push a little beyond and get away with it. So with careful control of the squish/quench clearance and spark plug location, you can shove the ratio .5 to 1 full ratio higher than the average of a simple ratio higher than iron. You need to work with the piston and cam timing to jam on the Dynamic Compresson Ratio (DCR) there are ponies to had here especially with higher (cost) end heads where the spark plug is well placed over the exhaust valve and the port and chamber configuration results in powerful flow and swirl activity.

Modern pistons, you need high silicon aluminum alloy pistons, shooting for 450 is on the upper end of hyper-eutectic cast pistons, but they will take it, just not forever. High silicon 4032 and this alloys VMS neighbors are the way to go. The high silcon alloys are very strong and thermally stable. That stability allows the skirt clearance to be cut to little or nothing which keeps the ring pack aligned with the cylinder wall so more (much more) compression and combustion pressure is held above the piston instead of leaking past the rings. If you want to belly up to the bar with some real money, gapless rings are the only way to go, I prefer the upper ring gapless but the second is a little cheaper and nearly as effective. These drop compression losses to to 1 percent or less, that's horsepower you can take to the bank. Rod selection for power means 6 or 6.125 the latter works super well with the 327's shorter 3.25 inch stroke compared to the 305 or 350 swinging 3.48 inches. There's lots of stuff floating around about how long rods let the engine breath better, forget it not that it's untrue its just not all that effective. What long rods do is cause the piston designer to move the pin up toward if not into the ring pack. This stabilizes the rings even more reducing wear on them and the cylinder wall and aiding in keeping their business ends in square contact with the wall. Again reducing blow by this keeping your hard one pressures above the piston where they push on it. Many of these modern pistons cast and forged have centered the pin as an offset to reduce skirt slap in not needed at these tight clearnaces. This was an old racers trick to extract more power but back in the days of 2016 alloys the piston had to be well warmed up before getting on the power pedal, or it would bust the skirts from the snap over. Piston forms bottom of combustion chamber its crown shape is very important, flat top is best, a slight dome or .1 or less is acceptable, D dish is an excellent compromise to a flat top where the compression ratio needs to be dialed in lower than that produced by a flat top. Circular dishes that extend under the squish/quench deck should be forbidden from manufacture. Those things extend the space under the all important squish/quench step that makes much of the engine's detonation resistance. For a low silicon alloy pistons like OEM castings and 2618 forgings with their wider skirt clearances about .040 squish/quench is the effective limit. Tighter is desireable but that requires a more stable piston so with a tight clearance hyper-eutectic casting or a 4032 forging this can be pushed toward .030. Perfect is .020 but this leaves no space for manufacturing, assembly, nor wear allowances; this just isn't practical outside of university labratories.

Camshaft I hate to say this but the era of the flat tappet is over. Putting these things into modern builds is just throwing good money after bad. Modern oils that are low on ZDDP and high on extreme energy detergents just can't keep the kind of extreme pressure lubrication on the cam. You can go to hardened cams and composition lifters but for the expense unless your running a race class that demands flat tappets, all this trickery is just as expensive (if not more) than just bitting the bullet and going with a roller. Today's cams are fast acting, look at things like Comps XE compare it to an Elgin of the same zero lift duration. What you'll see is modern cams have much less ramp, this shows up in the duration at .050 inch lift compared to the duration a zero lift or sometimes that's given at .004 or .006 inch. You will see that modern cam profiles kick the valve open very quickly. This makes wear a problem for falt tappets. The older designs with really long opening and closing ramps can't take advantage of the overlap on the opening side of the intake to help fill the cylinder and they hold that valve open way too long on the closing side allowing the rising piston to blow mixture (thus cylinder pressure) back into the intake. That was OK in the good old days when all the designer needed to do was push the compression up a couple, three ratios. You can't do that today so to preserve compression pressure you got to get that intake closed muy pronto. So you've got to go to a cam that opens and closes the intake valves fast and gets them open a lot. For the SBC a 1.6 rocker on the intake is most useful especially when combined with a longer duration exhaust lobe.

So from where things are at to where you want to go, you've got a lot research to do. This can be done on pump unleaded but even for a 350 inch engine, keeping it streetable is on the upper end of the technology. You can get there by other non supercharged or nitrous means but streetable it won't be. now if you want to come down to 350 horses this gets a lot easier and cheaper to pull off.

Bogie
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Old 07-25-2013, 05:34 PM
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ok i see what ur saying well do u think 400 hp is reasonable i want to try to build it for around 2000 $ can u give me some advuce for boring how big to go things to use for this since u know my budgets around 2000
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Old 07-25-2013, 05:58 PM
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You will run out of money before you get to the heads and cam.
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Old 07-25-2013, 08:24 PM
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For 2 grand set your sights on 300-350hp. It's still going to be tough. Even a bone stock rebuild at that price is getting hard.

Make it 4 grand and you have a decent shot.
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Old 07-27-2013, 07:38 AM
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A 331 making 450 hp is 1.36 horse power per cubic inch. A 355 making 450 horse power is 1.27 hp per cubic inch. It is not a big deal to make 1.5 HP per cubic inch and still be street able.Your biggest problem is your budget. If you build an engine that generates that much power requires premium parts and premium machine work. $1,000.oo to machine the block,align hone,square,and deck to zero,,,then balance rotating assembly,and any final machine work on the heads. ( crank)?
You still need to buy the premium parts?

big ticket items: roller cam and complete kit,including push rods and roller rockers.
Pistons and rings
rods and maybe crank?
Heads.
intake
carb
headers
balancer
ignition system including distributor (rev limiter is a good idea)
fuel delivery system including regulator
cooling system
Then the small parts will nickle and dime you
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Old 07-27-2013, 02:05 PM
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With only $2000 budget to work with you need to get creative.
What condition is this motor in? does it really need a rebuild?
oil pressure,, engine compression test results

Or can you just "freshen it" with a ring and bearing kit and a ball hone job.
Why suck up all your budget when you don't have to.

What version of the 327 is this motor? Cylinder head casting number)
Piston domed, flat top. stock GM? replaced??

if this motor is not all worn out, don't rebuild it.
This leaves money/budget for some power upgrades.

how do you plan on using this motor? in what car, etc etc.

is the cylinder bore stock 4.00" or? (previous rebuild)

start with a compression test and the cylinder head casting numbers

You need more than $2000 total to get 450 horsepower out of this motor.

One really good way to do this (450 streetable horsepower) is to supercharge this 327.
A 327 SBC is a really good engine to start with for a street blower motor project.

Start with a simple engine compression test and ID the cylinder head casting numbers. (under the valve covers)
From this you can make a build plan that fits your needs.

Last edited by F-BIRD'88; 07-27-2013 at 02:18 PM.
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Old 07-27-2013, 08:48 PM
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ive decided to go with a different motor becuz of block issues
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