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  #16 (permalink)  
Old 08-20-2012, 07:20 PM
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Again I thank you all for your advice. It's nice to bounce ideas off of people that know what they are talking about. As I run financial numbers in my head I am thinking that a 455 build could run into about 4 grand. I would have to get the heads and block machined...around 1800-2000? Then cam, pistons etc...probably another2k? That being said what about this engine on eBay? I have time to work things out finaancially...and yes Inwould have to have someone assemble the parts for me so not much "satisfaction" in building an engine...again this is only an idea...post shortly.

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Old 08-20-2012, 07:30 PM
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From an ebay listing: Worth considering?


Pontiac 400/461 stroker motor 420hp , READY TO RUN!! No need to track down all the components necessary to complete the engine, quality parts are installed, and adjusted for easy start-up and smooth performance. An Edelbrock 750cfm carburator with electric choke is supplied, for easy cold weather starting, along with a 50,000 volt HEI distributor - 8mm wires and plugs. A NEW timing cover-water pump-balancer-aluminum valley pan-chrome center hole valvecovers are installed, topped with a low profile Professional Products/ProComp intake manifold.

The block recieves the following machining: Bore and hone- deck gasket surface for positive gasket retention. The rotating assembly is by EAGLE, featuring a cast steel 4.25" stroke crankshaft, with 6.800" long forged I-beam rods and Mahle forged pistons. A TREMENDOUS increase in bottom end strength, over the OEM Pontiac parts!!

The heads recieve a 3-angle valvejob with gasket surface milled, assembled with matching new springs and positive valve seals. The Stage II camshaft used has specs (224`@.050" with .470" lift on 110`LSA), providing a LOPING sound in the the exhaust, letting everyone know there is something special under the hood!

This engine is BUILT TO ORDER, with several blocks ready to build, assembly takes only 3-4 weeks to complete, AFTER recieving payment thru PayPal or U.S.Post office money orders.. The engine will be painted the color you choose, with restoration quality finish and looks GREAT under the hood!! Shipping is quoted, please give your city and zip code, for accurate shipping cost!!! This motor carries a 90 day, parts and workmanship guarantee, after start-up. $3995
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Old 08-20-2012, 09:40 PM
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That is a very good deal and should be plenty strong for a street/strip engine, but I still recommend that the rotating assembly be balanced. If you decide to order it, ask how much additional charge to have it balanced.

Bill
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Old 08-21-2012, 06:42 AM
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A couple of red flags. Edelbrock carbs are less than desirable, IMO. We've seen a lot of tuning issues, particularly on larger engines. It also lists a "single pattern" camshaft, completely unacceptable for a Pontiac. Needs at least 6 more degrees of exhaust duration. Eagle stroker "kits" use H-beam rods (may be a typo) not I-beams. The only real increase in strength over the factory stuff is in the connecting rods. Pontiac cranks are as good or better than most others of the era (Eagle's casting IS the best aftermarket casting "out there").

There is no name of the company that is building these. E-Bay is a BAD idea for a "no name" rebuild.

Jim
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Old 08-21-2012, 04:59 PM
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I have to totally agree with Mr. P Body on this. I would avoid an engine from E Bay. Even buying a usable core can be questionable.
Evenif there is a problem and the company will warranty it,you are stuck with the freight.That can cost a lot.
Plenty of reputable places to get an engine built.Butler performance in Leoma tenn. Central Virginia Machine Service in Burkeville Virginia.
It pays to shop around.
There are plenty of pontiac engines out there. I have 2 I am using, and I am looking at 2 more 400 s. One 68 and a 73. Both are complete just pulled. Both need "freshened up" as the junk yard man says. He is usually straight with me. I garantee I would do more than just "freshen" one up.LOL
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Old 08-22-2012, 06:07 AM
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That cam does not like a stock torque converter or stock gears, or a stock low compression ratio.
needs a 3000 tall and 3.73's, 9.5:1 cr or it won't be much fun.

A bad choice for a family car.
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Old 08-22-2012, 06:24 AM
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I'm a bit dense but I am getting the impression that regardless of what I do with this, or an alternate engine is going to require a torque converter at some point?
I guess all I am looking for is a bit more go. Maybe change to d port heads from butler and call it good? Not much power gains though. I suppose this would give me the sound, not the idle but it may enhance the flowmaster super 44's and the h pipe I have?
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Old 08-22-2012, 09:58 AM
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I built a 455 last year and with a small Comp hydraulic roller, Butler ported heads, and a crank kit from Butler it cost me about $4200. It wasnt the least expensive way to go, but I wanted the roller to make cam swaps easier. You could duplicate it with a Summit 2801 or 2802, stock but rebuilt heads, and forged rods from Mr Pbody or some Tomahawk rods and be right at $3k including machine work. Mr Pbody does great work, have never heard anything bad about his engines. I think fuel choice is the only thing he and I disagree on.

As for the converter, you can go into almost any transmission shop and order a Th400 high stall for less than $200, I used to get them between $90 and $140. That converter stalls between 1900 and 2200, which is all a 400 or 455 street engine needs. Any more than that and you are wasting rpm and torque you could be using to move the car. I ran 11s with one of those in a 79 Formula with a 455, they are often referred to as an L88 converter. The reason you want to run a small stall like this is to keep the car from pushing through stop lights with an up sized cam. It will drive like a stock one, but allow more wiggle room than a 1500 stall converter would. The 2801 wont need much stall, but a mild one is not going to hurt anything and will probably help it be more fun to drive.

I would have the stock crank turned, add some Tomahawk rods, forged pistons, get it all balanced, then run a stock 6X head with the 2801 cam in your Bonneville. You can do that with either the 400 or 455 and they will pull your boat around easily. Machine work should be right around $1000 for a local shop to do the work, give or take a bit. Port the heads and the 2802 will be lots of fun smoking the tires. The roller cam I am running is about the same size as the 2801, and it has a very nice idle. Simple, inexpensive, and effective.
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Old 08-22-2012, 04:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jdmoell View Post
I'm a bit dense but I am getting the impression that regardless of what I do with this, or an alternate engine is going to require a torque converter at some point?
I guess all I am looking for is a bit more go. Maybe change to d port heads from butler and call it good? Not much power gains though. I suppose this would give me the sound, not the idle but it may enhance the flowmaster super 44's and the h pipe I have?
If you want to cam the engine so that it needs a looser TC, get w/someone who is familiar w/the power band characteristics of Pontiac engines. If you buy an off-the-shelf 3000 RPM stall speed TC it'll prolly flash to 4K behind a 455. This is because many converters are based on a SBC 350 engine unless otherwise noted.

The TC I used behind the 455 w/6X-4 heads I had in a '81 Camaro (cam 236 @ 0.050" lift, 108 LSA, 0.500" lift) flash stalled at 2800 RPM and was a great match to the engine- which had a bad-A idle and the balls to back it up.

The cam was a single pattern. To get around this, I used Rhodes lifters on the intake side only. I had planned to use 1.65 ratio rockers on the exhaust side, but it ran so good like it was that I never bothered.

A 455 built like this would pull your Bonny down the track in the low/mid 13's (providing you had tires that would allow it to hook up), it would sound great and would run on 89 octane. I used a small Holley 4777 650 cfm double pumper w/a Performer intake. Mileage wasn't something I worried about.

In your heavier car I'd suggest a Q-jet or 3310 Holley 750 cfm vacuum secondary carb on a Performer (lighter than stock but no more HP) or an RPM intake. Recurve a HEI distributor to match the combo and a set of 4-tube long tube headers and a limited slip diff.

Odds and ends:

Hopefully you have a TH400 tranny. It should be fresh and have the shifts firmed up and the 1-2 shift valve mod done to allow first gear to be held w/o it upshifting by itself (easy to do). And a 34 element sprag installed. Replace the U-joints if there is any question as to their condition and install a driveshaft loop.
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