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Old 04-01-2009, 03:45 PM
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1967 mustang 302 conversion questions

First, some background.

I have a 1967 mustang with the I200 w/3 speed that I want to convert to a 302 w/ the T5. The car is manual steering.

I have a complete 302/T5 setup - '90 engine, '88 T5, bell housing, clutch, driveshaft, wiring harness, accessory drive, lower intake, ecm, driveshaft, etc.

I also have a complete 289 out of a '68 mustang that I can scavenge parts from. (In case you're wondering, I got the 302/T5 setup cheaper than it would cost to get the 289 running. I will be selling the 289 when the 302 is running.)

I have a megasquirt that I built a couple of years ago for a different car that I'm planning on using to drive the fuel injection. I don't want to mess with the original Ford unit because I'm removing anything smog related and it would be running in open loop mode. Plus the tunability and logging of the megasquirt is nice.

So far, I've bought engine mounts and parts to do the hydraulic clutch conversion. I've read pages and pages and pages and I think I'm getting into somewhat unknown territory here. At least undocumented. Everyone else just sticks a carb on the 302 and uses stock 289 parts. Bah. I want to be different and I like EFI.

Now onto the questions:

- I believe that I can use the T5 yoke with my original driveshaft with a conversion U joint. Does anyone have a p/n I can use or specs for what I need to be looking for? The distance from the bellhousing to the end of the transmission is only 1/4" shorter on the T5. I'd love to avoid modifying the driveshaft.

- I'd like to keep the serpentine system from the 302 but I need to delete the power steering pump. Is there an easy & cheap way to do this? I can machine a dummy power steering pump otherwise. Or I could put a GM J-car rack in it..

- How can I hook the fox-body alternator into the 1st gen charging system? The old system has 3 wires on one plug and the new has two different plugs with several wires in each.

- Will the stock fox-body mustang efi intake fit under the hood? (I don't have an upper intake yet).

- Will a fox-body mustang throttle cable work? The I6 cable obviously won't work with the fox body intake.

- I need to switch the 302 to a front sump pan. Can I use the pan and oil pickup and dipstick from the 289 with the 302's oil pump and front case?

- Do I need to get a different cross member? I can't tell if the stock I6 cross member will work or not.

- Do I need to change anything with the suspension? I believe that the '67 and '68 used the same spindles and linkages for both the I6 and V8 cars.

- The 302 came with M.A.C. direct-fit headers. Will these work on my 1st gen? I don't mind building a custom exhaust setup as long as I don't have to modify the car..

- From what I can tell, the difference between the I6 and the 289 radiator is that the upper is moved 1/2". The physical size and # of rows is the same (looking at the chart in the NPD catalong). At a glance, it looks like the stock 302 hoses will work. Am I wrong?

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Old 04-01-2009, 04:24 PM
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you need everything from a V8 car to properly do the conversion.. steering box, spindles ( yes, 4 lug spindles are diffrent than 5 lug ), rear end should be a V8 8" peice instead of the 6cyl 7 1/4".. Radiator is also diffrent from I6 to V8... oh and the V8 springs in the front you'll need.. I'd just keep the 6 and modify it, of course that's what I did with my '67 Falcon..
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Old 04-01-2009, 04:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by matt167
you need everything from a V8 car to properly do the conversion.. steering box, spindles ( yes, 4 lug spindles are diffrent than 5 lug ), rear end should be a V8 8" peice instead of the 6cyl 7 1/4".. Radiator is also diffrent from I6 to V8... oh and the V8 springs in the front you'll need.. I'd just keep the 6 and modify it, of course that's what I did with my '67 Falcon..
Everything I've read says the spindles and steering components are the same in '67/'68. I've also got a line on a complete 5 lug conversion + disc setup nearby that I'm hoping to use.

I'd forgotten about springs though. I'll pick up a pair.
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Old 04-01-2009, 05:05 PM
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Without going through my books, my recollection is that until 1969 the suspension pieces for the 6 were weaker/smaller than the V8, I know that the brakes are and the rearend is the smaller intregal carrier.On just those few items, I would have to go with the early post regarding undercarriage parts.
If the front cover on the 5.0 has a dipstick hole( I don't think it does) you can swap the pan and pick-up, otherwise you need to change the front cover. That, of course, means the waterpump as well since the serpentine one is reverse flow. You may be able to drill a dipstick hole, some covers had the blank, and use the dipstick tube from the early engine. Have you tried fitting the engine with the rear sump? The only obstacle is the removable cross piece. It would be easier to make a new one ( probably stronger too) that cleared the rear sump engine and keep all the components of the late engine( serpentine belt,etc.). You should be able to drive the '90 engines injection with a mega squirt and that would save a bunch more work. It's also fairly easy to adapt the injection computer and wiring, I think Mustangs Plus in Ca. offers a kit, as well as a couple of others, to use the box without all the extraneous wiring.
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Old 04-01-2009, 05:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by woodz428
Without going through my books, my recollection is that until 1969 the suspension pieces for the 6 were weaker/smaller than the V8, I know that the brakes are and the rearend is the smaller intregal carrier.On just those few items, I would have to go with the early post regarding undercarriage parts.
1967 is a unique year. All of the steering parts are the same. I've quadruple checked in the NPD catalog and there are no 8-cyl specific parts. Even the I6 w AC springs are the same as the v8 w/o AC. I'm not sure why they have different springs based on AC or not. Does the old AC really weigh that much?

1968 shares a lot of parts with 1969. And a few with 1967.

Quote:
Originally Posted by woodz428
If the front cover on the 5.0 has a dipstick hole( I don't think it does) you can swap the pan and pick-up, otherwise you need to change the front cover. That, of course, means the waterpump as well since the serpentine one is reverse flow. You may be able to drill a dipstick hole, some covers had the blank, and use the dipstick tube from the early engine.
OK. I read somewhere that the 302 might have an indentation to drill the dipstick tube on the front cover. I'll take a look tonight. I didn't know if the front cover had other incompatible changes through the years.

Quote:
Originally Posted by woodz428
Have you tried fitting the engine with the rear sump? The only obstacle is the removable cross piece. It would be easier to make a new one ( probably stronger too) that cleared the rear sump engine and keep all the components of the late engine( serpentine belt,etc.).
I haven't tried fitting anything yet. I'm trying to cover as many bases as possible before I remove the working I6. I'd like to minimize downtime. Even though the car isn't drivable (bare metal) it's nice to be able to pull it in and out of the garage.

Thanks for your help.
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Old 04-01-2009, 05:30 PM
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I recently bought my neighbors 91 Mustang 5.0 engine. The engine is going into my 56 Truck. His engine has the Holley Injection system which I'm removing to use a carb setup with. (that way I don't have to mess with computer stuff). The sump is in the rear but is easily changed out with a different pickup tube. I'm using the old oil pan from the 289 and the timing housing which has the dip stick tube in the housing. I'm running the V belts instead of the serpertines, personal preference!. You can buy aftermarket pulleys which are serpentine if you want that will also work. The water pump, timing housing is all transferred to the 5.0, making any easy transition. You'll have to use the 50oz harmonic balancer and flywheel with the 5.0 because the 289 has the 28 oz balancer and won't work with the 5.0.
As far as the suspension, the 6 cylinder did have a weak and much smaller suspension than that of the V8 models. The sway bars, rearend, brakes are all much smaller and would need to be replaced or upgraded. You can go with an aftermarket radiator as long as the hose connections are in the correct place.
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Old 04-01-2009, 06:45 PM
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I wouldn't use NPD as an authority, by any means..they sell parts and for many brands. I do know that the brakes and rearend are NOT the same as the V8 version, at least according to the '67 Mustang brochure. The front spindles may be the same, but they would be drum brake spindles.In '68 they went to Disc brake specific spindles and the earlier 4 piston calipers/brackets would be hard to get or expensive if you locate any. Wilwood may have an set to adapt to the spindles, probably out perform original ones too (for the money let's hope so). Both the front and rear springs are softer as well as the front stabilizer bar. I like the 6 cylinder build up idea myself, you can use Fox body wheels on it and leave the under carriage with just a few tweaks.
Mustangs Plus in Ca. does these kind of mods on a regular basis and a quick call to them could answer all your questions from a group that has probably done what you are considering..I'd give them more credence than NPD. Now that's not saying NPD is a poor company, it's not, I have purchased stuff myself from them. I do know, however, that some of their listings have been wrong or misguided.
I am about to head out and the shop is locked or I'd get my interchange book out,I think the main difference between the '67 and '68 are the front spindles and brakes ( excluding stuff like padded steering wheel and minor design changes). They use the same 8" rear and 9" rear on the V8s, the 6 cylinder doesn't..on either year. If it has 4 bolt wheels it doesn't share the same rear as the V8. I think you'll find more parts interchange between the '67 and '68 than the '68 will with the '69. Because of the age of the car, it's possible someone has swapped V8 underpinings on the car. If NPD doesn't delineate between the 289 cars and the 390 cars in their V8 listing, that alone is an error.
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Old 04-01-2009, 07:14 PM
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I know NPD isn't the best but they're only an hour away. I save quite a bit on shipping by going through them.

You're absolutely right about the rear end and the sway bars and brakes. I was referring to the steering and spindles. Really, right now I'm just trying to get the 302 into the car and then getting the car moving again. I fully plan on swapping out the front and rear brakes for something sturdier later.

I have no desire to keep it an I6. Nor do I care about keeping the car original or even using Ford parts. Whatever works to get it running with somewhat modern power, handling, and braking with minimal cost is the name of the game I'm not above making my own parts - I have a bridgeport and a lathe among other metal working tools.

Thanks for the info.
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Old 04-01-2009, 10:11 PM
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I wasn't really trying to talk you into building the 6, and as I said I have bought parts from NPD, I was mainly referring to them as a tech source. I would pull that crosspiece and set the engine in as it is, you may find that you don't need to change the pan. The rear sump is better for oil slosh. I think it is also shallower than the front sump and may give more ground clearance. With your fabrication skills a new cross piece should be easy to make, if needed, and as I said likely stronger than the original one, especially if you use more than the 2 bolts. I had an '89 5.0 and liked it a lot, much broader power band than the earlier engines.
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Old 04-04-2009, 07:22 PM
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1966-1968 are identical, with the exception that only 1967 had the crash pad steering wheel ( Falcon's got them too ). your 4 lug spindles are diffrent than the 5 lug V8 spindles, the brake kits will fit ither or, but the strength of the 6cyl spindles are weaker.... the easy soloution is to use a set of Ford Granada spindles, and retain the entire Ford granada disc brake assembly.. the spindles are 5 lug and there is no diffrence between 6cyl and 8cyl spindles, and the Granada swap is the easiest way to get discs on an early Mustang... get new parts at www.discbrakeswap.com
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