1974 Pinto w/ 39k miles... won't stay running. - Hot Rod Forum : Hotrodders Bulletin Board
Hotrodders.com -- Hot Rod Forum



Register FAQ Search Today's Posts Unanswered Posts Auto Escrow Insurance Auto Loans
Hot Rod Forum : Hotrodders Bulletin Board > Tech Help> Engine
User Name
Password
lost password?   |   register now

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
  #1 (permalink)  
Old 03-20-2006, 08:34 AM
ViperMonster800's Avatar
Caprice/Camaro/BMW
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Raleigh, North Carolina
Age: 26
Posts: 155
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
1974 Pinto w/ 39k miles... won't stay running.

My father's '74 Ford Pinto station wagon is a beauty. Garaged for years and we recently got it running... but it won't stay running.

We put on a new starter, solenoid, fuel filter and battery. It idles great, like nothing else. Just when we take it for a test drive, 2-3 minutes after it starts to die. I hear choking in a carb while its in the process of dying. It seems like it floods so I press the pedal down, like a quick burst. It keeps it running but then it just dies. It usually happens on hills, right around when we make it to the top of one (just a 40 - 50 yard hill in the neighborhood).

I let it sit for a minute or two so I don't drain the battery. It fires back up after a second or two of cranking. Then dies after I put it in gear.

I thought it was because of pressing on the brake since the brake light draws a lot of juice, but the brake lights don't even come on. The only light that works currently is the headlight (single).

So I tried changing the fuel filter. Ran a lot better after that. But it didn't fix the dying problem.

Any ideas?

~Glen
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
  #2 (permalink)  
Old 03-20-2006, 08:38 AM
Registered User
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Cali
Posts: 994
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Have you checked the fuel pump? Is there another filter in the fuel line, like a small sintered bronze one in the carb? How about blowing back through the fuel line to the tank to clear any obstructions?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #3 (permalink)  
Old 03-20-2006, 09:11 AM
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 37
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
things to chk

Is the choke on the carb opening after warmup?

Is your alternator working. (chk by removing one battery cable with car started) don't need battery when car running.

Do you have a power brake booster? Could be vacuum leak when you hit brakes. (disconnect and plug hose to booster temporarily).

Can you rev up engine without it dying?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #4 (permalink)  
Old 03-20-2006, 10:18 AM
HemmiGremmie's Avatar  

Last journal entry: 52 truck
Last photo:
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Chillicothe Ohio
Age: 46
Posts: 1,398
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 2
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Also.
If it sat for many years without running, it could be watered dwn gas or settlement in the tank or the carb itself.
Try draining and putting new good octane gas in it and maybe take the carb off and spray it dwn and clean it up good. Put a new gasket and things on to. Hg
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #5 (permalink)  
Old 03-20-2006, 11:00 AM
CrashFarmer2's Avatar
Dried up in the Drought! :(
 
Last wiki edit: Pre-1980 VIN decoding
Last journal entry: 1978 Chevy pickup battery tray repair
Last photo:
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Iowa
Age: 57
Posts: 527
Wiki Edits: 409

Thanks: 19
Thanked 34 Times in 29 Posts
The first thing I would do is replace the fuel pump, I'll bet the diaphragm is cracked from sitting around. We had a pump go out from sitting on a 64 Buick Wildcat that had less than 5 miles on it.

Then I would tear the carb apart and clean thoroughly. You would be surprised how much gunk collects in a carburetor when sitting. And how do those spiders get in? Sometimes that old gas looks like jelly. I had to tear the carb apart on my 72 Ford truck along the road a couple of times from crap in the carb. I missed cleaning the area between the fuel filter and the needle valve and the truck would run fine empty, but as soon as I put a load on it I had a problem. After I got all the stuff out of that area it ran fine.

After you get it drivable make sure you have a couple of spare fuel filters and tools with you for a while. All kinds of stuff is going to be coming out of the tank for a while and that will be plugging your filter.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #6 (permalink)  
Old 03-20-2006, 11:11 AM
ViperMonster800's Avatar
Caprice/Camaro/BMW
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Raleigh, North Carolina
Age: 26
Posts: 155
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
I had a suspicion that it was the alternator, so I drove to Advance Auto Parts (luckily) so they can check it out. They tested it and its pumping 1 amp. Yep, you heard me, one amp.

Yes, I can rev it up fine without it dying.

No, I don't have a brake booster. Good ol' manual brakes.

Yes, the choke is open all the time. I guess thats my father's handy work.

The only fuel filter that I got to was the screw-in filter thats in front of the carb.

I had thought it was the fuel pump when I couldn't get it started 2 months ago, but it turns out it was only the factor from me putting on a new fuel hose to the fuel pump that was pinched. Fixed that by shortening it up.

Yesterday my brother took it around the block to see if driving it might free it up... somehow. Well he got back to the house but it was dead halfway in the driveway. I tell him to pop the hood and I saw a very low amount of smoke coming from the air cleaner, it just looked like fumes... just light smoke. I open the air cleaner and see that there's a 2"x4" block burned off the air filter!

That immediately told me there was some bad backfiring. My dad thought it was "backflashing"? I never heard that term before. He told me it means the timing is off resulting in fuel being burned openly through the intake and carb.

The timing doesn't seem to be the issue because it'll run and idle fine. It idles perfectly! No skip in it's beat. It may seem like I'm exaggerating a little but its how I see it when it hasn't run in 7 years.

All of your input is greatly appreciated.

~Glen

Last edited by ViperMonster800; 03-20-2006 at 11:14 AM. Reason: wrong wordage
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #7 (permalink)  
Old 03-20-2006, 11:23 AM
65Stanger's Avatar
Check the water, check the oil
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: California
Posts: 377
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
DEFINITELY CHECK THE TIMING! Yeah, smoke can come up through the carburetor if your timing is off. Is there a fuel filter IN the fuel pump like there is on my Mustang? Also, now that you had your alternator checked, are you going to replace it? I've got a 60 AMP Alt on my car now. Did you check to make sure that the Transmission has the right amount of fluid? If the tranny's shot too much rattle can kill an engine when you put it in gear (it's happened to me, got the transmission rebuilt and everything runs smooth). Just make a double check on EVERYTHING, or let someone else who hasn't been working on the car do a double check, because you have seen it so many times, that you can lie to yourself and think that you'd done something but haven't really. A 2nd or 3rd opinion never hurt anybody. Post pictures!
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #8 (permalink)  
Old 03-20-2006, 11:32 AM
ViperMonster800's Avatar
Caprice/Camaro/BMW
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Raleigh, North Carolina
Age: 26
Posts: 155
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
I don't believe there is a fuel filter IN the fuel pump. Its all solid on the pump.

I plan on getting a new alternator on there, its just a matter of getting my dad to cough up the money. Its supposed to be pumping out 30 - 35 amps. I'm probably going to take a different one off one of my father's parts cars.

Transmission is checked out, shifts great, and full of fluid. When I shifted into gear on the hill, it died right after I put it in gear and press on the brakes... twice! I tried jumping the brake and putting it in gear and I got lucky and drove it the rest of the way up the hill. The only tricky thing is the brake lights aren't working.

I'd ask for my Ranchero buddy to help me out but he recently moved a pretty far distance away. I'd have to catch his Ford expertise on his day-trip into town... whenever that will be.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #9 (permalink)  
Old 03-20-2006, 12:33 PM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: California
Age: 67
Posts: 827
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 27
Thanked 21 Times in 19 Posts
Pintos have an issue with the carburetor. Actually with the float. The float is made of a closed cell foam, and sometimes the fuel additives eat a bit at the float, and the foam becomes open cell. Then the float doesn't. That is to say, it doesn't float.

Try cleaning and rebuilding the carb. You'll find everything is fine (after the float dries out during the rebuild) for a while. Then the whole problem starts again. I rebuild one of those carbs 3 times, knowing that the motor was flooding out. I finally figured it out by dropping the float into a can with gasoline. It sank to the bottom. I hope you find that the alternator issue solves the problem, or something someone else suggested. I image a float for a pinto carb could be an endangered speices . . . .

Pat
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #10 (permalink)  
Old 03-20-2006, 02:09 PM
ViperMonster800's Avatar
Caprice/Camaro/BMW
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Raleigh, North Carolina
Age: 26
Posts: 155
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by PatM
I imagine a float for a pinto carb could be an endangered speices . . . .

Pat
heh heh heh. I don't doubt that, but then again I never looked for one. I'll take a look around. Might get lucky on one of my dad's parts cars.

I sure hope its just the alternator... I know that the issue of backfiring isn't the alternator, I just hope to get this thing running long enough to sell it.

~Glen
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #11 (permalink)  
Old 03-20-2006, 06:54 PM
65Stanger's Avatar
Check the water, check the oil
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: California
Posts: 377
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
What're you selling it for?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #12 (permalink)  
Old 03-21-2006, 06:39 AM
bondo's Avatar
Member
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Chaumont Bay N.Y.
Posts: 953
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 6
Thanked 13 Times in 13 Posts
Quote:
I sure hope its just the alternator... I know that the issue of backfiring isn't the alternator, I just hope to get this thing running long enough to sell it.
I Really Doubt it's the Alternator,...... Or the Timing.........

Matter of Fact,....... I'd Bet the Farm, that you have a Fuel Delivery Issue,........

Probably the Carb,....... But it could be Anything from the Fuel Tank Vent TO the Carb.................

There's a Restriction Somewhere,+ It's going Lean,....... That's Causing the Backfires............
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #13 (permalink)  
Old 03-21-2006, 07:10 AM
ViperMonster800's Avatar
Caprice/Camaro/BMW
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Raleigh, North Carolina
Age: 26
Posts: 155
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by bondo
I Really Doubt it's the Alternator,...... Or the Timing.........

Matter of Fact,....... I'd Bet the Farm, that you have a Fuel Delivery Issue,........

Probably the Carb,....... But it could be Anything from the Fuel Tank Vent TO the Carb.................

There's a Restriction Somewhere,+ It's going Lean,....... That's Causing the Backfires............
I'd bet a farm too that its fuel delivery. It runs fine until its under load after a minute or so and then it would seem that particles and junk starts clogging the line, such as crusty pieces of rubber hose or gunk built up from over the years or etc.

Whats the best way to check over this without taking up ALOT of time and without losing any gas?

I don't think I need to start with the carb because the carb seems to perform quite well. I'll start looking at the fuel line and what-not to see if there's any blockages.

The "vent" you're talking about, does it look like this?

I got this picture from AdvanceAutoParts.com in search of fuel filters for a 1974 Ford Pinto 2.3L and this was an odd-ball looking filter that was on there.

Let me know.

~Glen

Last edited by ViperMonster800; 03-21-2006 at 07:11 AM. Reason: Added information
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #14 (permalink)  
Old 03-21-2006, 07:26 AM
bondo's Avatar
Member
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Chaumont Bay N.Y.
Posts: 953
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 6
Thanked 13 Times in 13 Posts
Nope,... I'm talking about the Fuel Tank Vent,....... Ya Know,.. A piece of Hose that allows the Air out of the Tank when you're Filling It,.... Or allows Air Into the tank when the fuel pump pulls fuel Out of it.......

I'd Also Think that there's a Real Fuel Filter on that car,.. Somewhere.... Besides the 1 In the Carb.......
There's Got to be a CAN of some sort that that big shiney filter drops Into.....

You've got to be Sure that gas Can Easily flow from the Tank,.... Thru the gas Lines,.... Thru the Filters,....The Fuel Pump,+ the Carb.....

HOW to figure this out,...???...... I'd disconnect Things,+ BLOW......

Is the Fuel Pump able to Maintain the Required 4/5psi to the Carb,..???...
If it Is/Does,.... I'd Rebuild the Carb......
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #15 (permalink)  
Old 03-21-2006, 08:15 AM
ViperMonster800's Avatar
Caprice/Camaro/BMW
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Raleigh, North Carolina
Age: 26
Posts: 155
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by bondo
Nope,... I'm talking about the Fuel Tank Vent,....... Ya Know,.. A piece of Hose that allows the Air out of the Tank when you're Filling It,.... Or allows Air Into the tank when the fuel pump pulls fuel Out of it.......

I'd Also Think that there's a Real Fuel Filter on that car,.. Somewhere.... Besides the 1 In the Carb.......
There's Got to be a CAN of some sort that that big shiney filter drops Into.....
Like that picture I showed you? That big shiny can that has a hole in the top?

I'm not sure that it has a vent because this is the old style gas filler where its just a tube, instead of a little flap that has just enough room for it to plug into. What I mean by it is its so big that there is enough air around to breathe inside the filler neck.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

Recent Engine posts with photos

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now

In order to be able to post messages on the Hot Rod Forum : Hotrodders Bulletin Board forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name (usually not your first and last name), your email address and other required details in the form below.
User Name:
If you do not want to register, fill this field only and the name will be used as user name for your post.
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.
Password:
Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.
Email Address:

Log-in

Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Torino wont stay running 79firebird350 Engine 4 05-20-2004 12:38 PM
why wont it stay running 67bird Engine 10 02-12-2004 11:35 PM
Bronco will not stay running th2hh Electrical 8 10-10-2003 10:16 PM
'78 Chevy Luv truck won't stay running Jmark Engine 2 10-08-2003 07:04 AM
Car Starts but wont stay running ProphecyXI Electrical 7 05-19-2003 04:24 PM


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 05:43 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0 PL2
Copyright Hotrodders.com 1999 - 2012. All Rights Reserved.