Hot Rod Forum : Hotrodders Bulletin Board

Hot Rod Forum : Hotrodders Bulletin Board (http://www.hotrodders.com/forum/)
-   Engine (http://www.hotrodders.com/forum/engine/)
-   -   1976 Ford 302 Build Q's (http://www.hotrodders.com/forum/1976-ford-302-build-qs-149313.html)

sixty9santa 12-06-2008 04:13 PM

1976 Ford 302 Build+Autolite 4100 Q's
 
I've got a 1976 Ford Granada with a bone stock 302 ( Tall deck I believe with an 8.0:1 compression) in her that I'd like to build on a very tight budget.
Here she is:
http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f6...a/IMG_1651.jpg

And the wheels that I got of a wrecked 2007 Mustang GT:
http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f6...1920081624.jpg

So far I've purchased the exhaust system and it consists of Hooker 6901HKR headers, a Pypes 2.5" universal X-pipe kit (will purchase soon) and a pair of Magnaflow side exit mufflers.

Mufflers with Hooker 6901HKR Headers
http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f6...0320080037.jpg

What I'm still waiting to purchase
http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f6...ypesXVF10S.jpg

And the reducers that I'm making:

Some, well, lots of finishing left to complete the 304ss reducers
http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f6...0320080039.jpg

The parts that I've gotten for the engine are an Autolite 4100 carb (model C5AF-F) and a Carburetor Doctor Super Kit with an electric choke (part#: SK4100C). Just don't know what 1" spacer to get?
Here's the carb:
http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f6...32_9092481.jpg

The intake manifold that I'm contemplating is from Professional Products Crosswind, an Edelbrock RPM Air Gap knockoff.

As for a cam, I'm looking at the Lunati Voodoo series. More specifically the 61003LK, a hydraulic flat tappet cam and lifter set.

Don't know what heads to get, but I'd like aluminum at a good price.
I've also heard that GT40p's are very nice, although iron, but I'm unsure if they'll work with my headers? Maybe with header spacers?

Or should I save myself the headache and get an Edelbrock top end kit and be done with it?

The trans is an automatic C4 that has a B&M Transpak as well as a B&M line lock.

As you can most likely tell, this will be my first engine build.
I'm on an extremely tight college student budget so, for now, I'm happy I got a car!
Cheers and thanks for the help,

Chris

techinspector1 12-06-2008 04:37 PM

In the big picture, I think you're going to find out that this is an exercise in frustration. The car is no lightweight and the motor is very small. The heads are only good for doorstops as you seem to have figured out already. The cam you're looking at is too big for 8.0 SCR. I'd bet the car will be slower with it than it was with the stock cam.

My best advice is to cut your losses where you are right now and drive the car as is until you either graduate or come into money.

sixty9santa 12-06-2008 05:03 PM

I figured that the current compression is 8.0:1 with the stock 69cc heads.
I'm unsure what the compression will be once I put some 58-60cc heads on.
I've also been looking at some Summit +3cc pistons. All in all, don't know what to do, but all the work would be done by myself.

I'm currently 25 and I do have a machinist, tool+die maker, and machine modification/repair background....if these help...I'm going to school for mech.eng.

The car is 3200lbs, kind of like some of the Mustangs. In fact, the Granada shares a lot with Mustangs and Mavericks. As in many parts do in fact interchange, even the floor pans!

There is a certain amount that I can set aside each month for car parts...

techinspector1 12-06-2008 05:09 PM

Are there city or provincial laws or regulations which would look unkindly on modifications to the car? Will the motor have to pass emissions testing?

sixty9santa 12-06-2008 05:14 PM

techinspector1, none whatsoever!

sixty9santa 12-08-2008 12:39 AM

I have a chance of getting some ported and rebuilt 302 HO heads for near nothing, 200$.
Should I?
What compression could I get and what cam should I be looking at if I get the heads with the above list of parts?

My girlfriend even said that they'd be my Christmas gift!

techinspector1 12-08-2008 03:35 AM

I'd need to know the volume of the combustion chambers, piston crown volume, piston deck height volume and head gasket volume to properly figure the SCR.

onebadmerc 12-08-2008 08:56 AM

If it is a early 76 engine it will have 58cc heads, Ford didn't change the heads to a 69cc chamber until late 76. Your compression ratio is really low due to a deep dish in the pistons. Even if you find a set of pre 66 289 head with 54cc chambers and bolt them on, your compression won't be more than 8:5 to 1. The Autolight four barrel you have is designed for a big block engine in a heavy car. That carb will make your car run even slower. If you go with a Autolight 4100 find one calibrated for a small block, flow ratings are around 480cfm otherwise use a Edelbrock 500cfm four barrel. The 2 1/2" exhaust is going to kill all of you bottom end torque, I would step it down to 2 1/4". I don't have much experience with the Edelbrock knock off intakes, but if it was me, I would spend the extra $50 and get a Edelbrock intake or a Weiand intake. You do have a good looking car there and it would be a good car to hop a little bit, but don't expect much out of it with your dismal compression ratio.

timothale 12-08-2008 09:57 AM

carb.
 
I always liked that old long body 4 barrel carb...things to do... check out the casting lines inside the bores ...usually they have sharp ridges where the mold didn't line up . sand paper and a stick and polish the air flow thru the carb. then a new rebuild kit and check that every thing works choke operation, choke unloader you can adjust ignitiin timing and accelerator pump to work together off the line. and I used to bend a 16 penny nail and weld it to the primary linkage so at full throttle it would kick in the secondaries with out the vacuum pull... Retired Ford engineer.

sixty9santa 12-08-2008 02:07 PM

Thank you for all the advice!

I talked to Pony Carbs last week and told them that I was considering using the Edelbrock Top End Kit. Before calling Pony Carbs, I contacted Edelbrock, they said I need at least 9.5:1 compression (I agree) and a 650 to 700cfm carb......which I find excessive.

I called Barry Grant the same day, and they suggested a 650cfm Speed Demon......I think it's too much.

After contacting Edelbrock and Barry Grant, Pony Carbs informed me that seeing that the Autolite 4100's flow about 550cfm, I should be fine, and to call them when all is setup so that they can send me the proper jet sizes.
There was an independent test done to SAE standards (I forgot the link since I printed it but it was Charlie's Automotive in Apex, NC), and it was discovered that the 4 of the "big" 1.12 venturi sized 4100's flowed 503cfm, 523cfm, 526cfm and 528cfm.....I was shocked!

Pony carbs also informed my that 95% of the 4100's have the exact same casting, with the exception of the venturis of course, and therefore they could configure my carb for my needs.

So currently, I believe that the only thing holding me back is my pistons.......and money...........and complete lack of experience :embarrass

sixty9santa 12-09-2008 02:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by timothale
...I used to bend a 16 penny nail and weld it to the primary linkage so at full throttle it would kick in the secondaries with out the vacuum pull... Retired Ford engineer.

Thanks for the input timothale, I was also told that doubling and even tripling the booster gaskets is a good thing to do.......why?

old fords 12-09-2008 06:17 PM

over on the maverick site some members have put GT40p heads on their cars with 6901 headers and they say that it will burn up the wires and you have to use shorty header plugs. If I were you I would get a set of regular GT40 heads for it

sixty9santa 12-11-2008 01:18 AM

Thank you for the advice and I'll steer clear of the "P" heads.
Instead, I'll save up for the Edelbrock Performer RPM Top End Kit to keep things simple on my first build.

I know that removing the engine from the car is the best way so I may have a question that might be completely stupid but, can I change my pistons with the engine still in the car? Could it be done, safely?

I ask this since I have absolutely no space for the car in the garage, not to mention that an engine hoist is out of my budget at the moment (no possibility to rent either). I can get a complete set, minus rings, of +3cc hypereutectic pistons from Summit Racing for about 90$ (part#: SUM-17302-00) and a set of moly piston rings (part#: SUM-133-M139-00) for about 36$ that should work with the above mentioned pistons.
Would this be a wise thing to do?
Would +3cc pistons work with a 60cc chambered heads to get my compression between 9:1 and 9.5:1 with a tall deck?

I know that I must be irritating with all my newbie questions, and I do apologize for my lack of experience and knowledge. Feeling kinda dumb,

Chris

redlightning 12-11-2008 01:44 AM

That car is going to look great with those wheels and sound great with that exhaust system. :thumbup:
I would drive it that way and enjoy it.And get a 302 or 351W and build as you have time and money.

sixty9santa 12-12-2008 11:18 AM

Thanks for the kind comment!
I guess I'll keep getting the parts as cash permits and when all is waiting to be assembled, I'll be back for more great help.

So back to the Autolite 4100, I've managed to get my local Ford dealer to order a rebuild kit (Motorcraft CT-191-A) for 36$.

As I've been doing some more research, I've discovered that the original brass floats will all fail at some point, just a matter of time. The alternative are the nitrophyl floats. I believe that they are still available from Ford (Motorcraft CM-1062-A, Ford D4AZ-9550-A) but I'm unsure if I've gotten the proper part#?


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 07:14 PM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0 PL2
Copyright Hotrodders.com 1999 - 2012. All Rights Reserved.