1977 Chevrolet K10 - Starting Problems, Weak Idle and Power Loss - Page 12 - Hot Rod Forum : Hotrodders Bulletin Board
Hotrodders.com -- Hot Rod Forum



Register FAQ Search Today's Posts Unanswered Posts Auto Escrow Insurance Auto Loans
Hot Rod Forum : Hotrodders Bulletin Board > Tech Help> Hotrodding Basics
User Name
Password
lost password?   |   register now

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
  #166 (permalink)  
Old 06-29-2011, 08:45 PM
lt1silverhawk's Avatar
"But how do it know?"
 
Last wiki edit: How to rebuild a Rochester Quadrajet 4MV carbureto... Last photo:
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Lakewood, CA
Posts: 2,287
Wiki Edits: 132

Thanks: 101
Thanked 24 Times in 17 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by 123pugsy
Its not a hose.
Its a tiny copper tube.

I hate to say it but this is the most likely cause of a pressurized oil leak at the rear of the motor.
Remember this tube emits up to 60 psi on your gage.
Not sure if its really that much with the size of tube involved and how the gage is calibrated, but there is pressure there for sure.

I'll see if I can find something to link to.

See the pic. The arrow is pointing at the compression ring.
The tube is in the pic is plastic but like what you have, the ring is copper.
If its cracked you would need to cut the cracked tube off, slide a new ring on and screw it to the sensor.
Thanks! That helps!


The only ones I am seeing are plastic. General examples: VDO Gauges 150855 - VDO Tubing Kits at Summit and Dorman/AutoGrade 1/4 in. dia. x 3 ft. length multi-purpose tubing at Autozone. I imagine temporarily taping it or JB Welding it up so I can at least start the truck is probably not a good idea.


I'm thinking if I should play it safe and just go to the dealership (provided they still carry it).

    Advertisement
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
  #167 (permalink)  
Old 06-30-2011, 12:58 AM
lt1silverhawk's Avatar
"But how do it know?"
 
Last wiki edit: How to rebuild a Rochester Quadrajet 4MV carbureto... Last photo:
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Lakewood, CA
Posts: 2,287
Wiki Edits: 132

Thanks: 101
Thanked 24 Times in 17 Posts
I stopped by Autozone this evening and the closest thing I found to copper tubing was this kit by Sunpro (CP7584). I went ahead and bought it in case this is what I need, in which case and have it on hand and ready to go.


It turns out there is a listing for more copper tubing on the website (Gauge Line Tubing), but I didn't see any of it at the store I went to.


Hoping to do a check on the original tubing before heading to work tomorrow.

Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	SNC01148.jpg
Views:	431
Size:	312.3 KB
ID:	56458  
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #168 (permalink)  
Old 07-03-2011, 08:09 PM
lt1silverhawk's Avatar
"But how do it know?"
 
Last wiki edit: How to rebuild a Rochester Quadrajet 4MV carbureto... Last photo:
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Lakewood, CA
Posts: 2,287
Wiki Edits: 132

Thanks: 101
Thanked 24 Times in 17 Posts
I checked the tube on the oil pressure sender and it was indeed damaged. It apparently snapped when I was bolting down the throttle cable bracket onto the manifold, not realizing the the tube should have been going on top on the bracket. It was hidden from my view as I working from the passenger-side.


I repaired it by installing a new compressor ring which fit quite snugly. The original tube is plastic. I would like to upgrade to copper, but it will have to be done at a later time when I have an idea how to do it (gauges and I have a bad relationship).







-----------------------------




I put the carburetor back on, put the hoses back in places by going over the pictures from the carburetor rebuild. The truck turns over but doesn't start. I messed with the timing, put more gas in the tank, used plenty of starting fluid, but no go. Eventually the carburetor flooded and battery died. You can see all the starting attempts in this video: Start Up Attempts 7-3-2011 (1:29).


Right now, the battery is being charged. I have gone and ahead and rechecked all the hoses. Will mess with the timing again and report back.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	Oil Pressure Sender Tube_Tile.jpg
Views:	424
Size:	491.6 KB
ID:	56524  
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #169 (permalink)  
Old 07-04-2011, 02:51 PM
lt1silverhawk's Avatar
"But how do it know?"
 
Last wiki edit: How to rebuild a Rochester Quadrajet 4MV carbureto... Last photo:
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Lakewood, CA
Posts: 2,287
Wiki Edits: 132

Thanks: 101
Thanked 24 Times in 17 Posts
Hi All,


Hope everyone is having a safe and fun July 4th.


I spent some time moving the distributor back and forth yesterday and this morning, but no luck. Some of the video's from yesterday's attempts are linked in the previous post.


While I am confident I found TDC for piston #1 and set up the distributor and wires correctly, I have decided to do everything again.


I removed the cap and rotor to make sure everything looks ok on the inside. The distributor fell on the floor a few days back and I hope that didn't damage anything. I am thinking about removing the Ignition Control Module, taking it to Autozone and having it tested. While I'm there, I'm going to pick up a can of electric connections cleaner and spray everything down.







I tried finding TDC on piston #1 by inserting a thick wire into the spark plug hole. I put a piece og black electrical tape for reference to see how it moved. Unfortunately. The wire was of no help and actually got caught. I got it unstuck by lightly cranking the engine once.


I then had someone crank the engine while I kept my finger over the spark plug hole. Once I felt the air rush out, I tried turning the balancer using the socket but the bolt head for the balancer is now too far gone. The timing mark is at about 4 degrees before TDC. I am taking Bruce's advice #2 (75gmck25) in post 147 (page 10) to finish up:

Quote:
Originally Posted by 75gmck25
Its hard to turn the engine over with the balancer bolt because you can't keep the socket square on the bolt and it takes a lot of leverage. I didn't strip the bolt on mine, but I did crack a 6 point socket from the torque I was applying. Then I tried using an old 12 point and it stripped the inside of the socket.

For my last reassembly I used two methods:

1 - Before the balancer was installed. Remove the flywheel cover and clamp a vice grips on the toothed part of the flywheel. You can only turn it about 70 degrees, but there is good leverage because of the diameter of the flywheel. I also marked the flywheel with paint (a line running straight down) once I got to TDC.

2 - A strap wrench (rubber strap type from Lowes) around the crankshaft pulley. My outer belt on the pulley is for A/C and I did not have that belt installed. Its not easy to keep the strap in place on the pulley, but once you apply pressure it tightens up and you have quite a bit of leverage. Before I installed the fan I could turn it with the strap wrench from the engine compartment, but with the fan in place I had to lay under the truck and turn it over.

Bruce





As an added bonus, I've got fuel leaking from the carburetor's filter housing.






Now, I am off to pick up a strap wrench and a can of electric cleaner.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	Distributor_Cap_Rotor_Tile.jpg
Views:	449
Size:	616.2 KB
ID:	56534   Click image for larger version

Name:	Wire_Timing Mark_Tile.jpg
Views:	392
Size:	229.6 KB
ID:	56535   Click image for larger version

Name:	Picture 006.jpg
Views:	413
Size:	289.8 KB
ID:	56536  
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #170 (permalink)  
Old 07-04-2011, 05:26 PM
lt1silverhawk's Avatar
"But how do it know?"
 
Last wiki edit: How to rebuild a Rochester Quadrajet 4MV carbureto... Last photo:
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Lakewood, CA
Posts: 2,287
Wiki Edits: 132

Thanks: 101
Thanked 24 Times in 17 Posts
Before heading out, I yanked the distributor and removed the Ignition Control Module. I went to Autozone and had the Ignition Control Module tested. The employee at first said it failed. But then he tested it again after testing a new one, and it passed. I purchased a can of CRC Lectra-Motive Electric Parts Cleaner to clean out the distributor. I found a set of strap wrench for $15.99, but decided to try Harbor Freight, which had 'em for $2.99.






Unfortunately, the strap on the larger wrench kept slipping on the section between the balancer and the pulley due to large amount of grease. So I loosened up the power steering pump to remove the belt and tried the wrench on the pulley, but still too much slippage. On my return to the tool box, I found the six-point 16mm socket and tried that on the bolt head and it worked. Could've saved me a trip...






Because I was turning the balancer from below the truck, it took quite a few tried to get the mark as close to zero as possible. Also, the 16mm socket is now stuck to the bolt. Guess I'll leave it there for now...





I have cleaned out the distributor by gently spraying the CRC stuff. Im now going to drop it back in, using the same steps I followed in post #14* (page 10)
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	CRC Cleaner $ Strap Wrenches_Tile.jpg
Views:	515
Size:	222.5 KB
ID:	56537   Click image for larger version

Name:	Strap Wrench & Power Steering Pump_Tile.jpg
Views:	376
Size:	189.2 KB
ID:	56538   Click image for larger version

Name:	Timing Marks & 16mm Socket_Tile.jpg
Views:	463
Size:	528.4 KB
ID:	56539  
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #171 (permalink)  
Old 07-05-2011, 10:39 AM
lt1silverhawk's Avatar
"But how do it know?"
 
Last wiki edit: How to rebuild a Rochester Quadrajet 4MV carbureto... Last photo:
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Lakewood, CA
Posts: 2,287
Wiki Edits: 132

Thanks: 101
Thanked 24 Times in 17 Posts
I installed the distributor again yesterday by referring to the steps described in "Install a small block chevy distributor", as well as a video on Youtube titled "small block chevy HEI distributor installation".


I tried firing up the truck and got nothing. I crank it and it always ends with a small puff of white smoke shooting out. You can see the 16 second video here. To me, it seemed the carburetor wasn't getting fuel and something might be clogged so I removed the glass-cased fuel filter in front of it and stuck a fuel line into the choke plate. That ended with a flame. You can see the 9 second video here.


The fuel in the glass-cased fuel filter does seem to be carrying the same debris that was found to have caused the problems at the beginning of this thread. Also, although I did pour in some Stabil into the "clean gas tank" (passenger-side), I wonder it it has gone bad.


Any advice is greatly welcome as, aside from dirty fuel, I am out of ideas.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #172 (permalink)  
Old 07-05-2011, 11:42 AM
123pugsy's Avatar
HOT ROD...... FROM A CHRYSLER?
 
Last wiki edit: Metal shaping
Last journal entry: FLOOR BEADS
Last photo:
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Markham,ON
Age: 52
Posts: 2,413
Wiki Edits: 29

Thanks: 495
Thanked 291 Times in 251 Posts
Try turning the distributor 180 degrees.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #173 (permalink)  
Old 07-05-2011, 12:46 PM
lt1silverhawk's Avatar
"But how do it know?"
 
Last wiki edit: How to rebuild a Rochester Quadrajet 4MV carbureto... Last photo:
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Lakewood, CA
Posts: 2,287
Wiki Edits: 132

Thanks: 101
Thanked 24 Times in 17 Posts
Hey Pugsy,

Ok, I will try that tonight and report back. Should that not work on the first, try, should I do the same thing again? I ask because the article I've been using for reference states that every time the distributor is moved 180 degrees, the rotor seats approximately 30 degrees clockwise. Yesterday, the rotor was set to face approximately 6:30 position, which is marked as cylinder one on the cap in the final video.

Thanks!
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #174 (permalink)  
Old 07-05-2011, 01:14 PM
123pugsy's Avatar
HOT ROD...... FROM A CHRYSLER?
 
Last wiki edit: Metal shaping
Last journal entry: FLOOR BEADS
Last photo:
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Markham,ON
Age: 52
Posts: 2,413
Wiki Edits: 29

Thanks: 495
Thanked 291 Times in 251 Posts
When you drop it back in, make sure the rotor points exactly 180 degrees from where you started.

More than likely, you're off 180.

It should only drop in at the 180 degree as the key in the oil pump shaft is a slot.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #175 (permalink)  
Old 07-05-2011, 05:36 PM
lt1silverhawk's Avatar
"But how do it know?"
 
Last wiki edit: How to rebuild a Rochester Quadrajet 4MV carbureto... Last photo:
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Lakewood, CA
Posts: 2,287
Wiki Edits: 132

Thanks: 101
Thanked 24 Times in 17 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by 123pugsy
When you drop it back in, make sure the rotor points exactly 180 degrees from where you started.

More than likely, you're off 180.

It should only drop in at the 180 degree as the key in the oil pump shaft is a slot.
Got it.




I've been doing some more reading at work, and there are two things that keep coming up that I did not do. They are:
  • line up the oil pump slot so its horizontally aligned ( 3:00 - 9:00) and,
  • set the timing to approximately 10 degrees BTDC
Should I have done those two things?




What I've been reading:

From www.73-87.com: Distributor Removal/Installation Procedure

From Chevytalk.org: Chevy 350 SB set timing

Last edited by lt1silverhawk; 07-05-2011 at 05:52 PM.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #176 (permalink)  
Old 07-05-2011, 06:41 PM
123pugsy's Avatar
HOT ROD...... FROM A CHRYSLER?
 
Last wiki edit: Metal shaping
Last journal entry: FLOOR BEADS
Last photo:
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Markham,ON
Age: 52
Posts: 2,413
Wiki Edits: 29

Thanks: 495
Thanked 291 Times in 251 Posts
If the oil pump is not lined up, the distrbutor will not drop in so you must have got that.

Are you saying since trying to start the truck you have not turned the distributor different directions to see what happens?

Keep the bolt only snug enough so you can turn the cap by hand in either direction thru the starting process.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #177 (permalink)  
Old 07-05-2011, 07:05 PM
lt1silverhawk's Avatar
"But how do it know?"
 
Last wiki edit: How to rebuild a Rochester Quadrajet 4MV carbureto... Last photo:
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Lakewood, CA
Posts: 2,287
Wiki Edits: 132

Thanks: 101
Thanked 24 Times in 17 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by 123pugsy
If the oil pump is not lined up, the distrbutor will not drop in so you must have got that.
It drops in, but I never made the attempt to straighten up the slot on the oil pump using a long screw driver.




Quote:
Originally Posted by 123pugsy
Are you saying since trying to start the truck you have not turned the distributor different directions to see what happens?
No I've been moving the distributor back forth, which is why I made several videos of the starting attempts and merged 'em into a few.




Quote:
Originally Posted by 123pugsy
Keep the bolt only snug enough so you can turn the cap by hand in either direction thru the starting process.
At some points, I didn't even have the bolt on. But I'll keep it bolted down just enough.



So now, when I turn rotate the distributor 180 degrees, do I leave the spark plug wires as is or do I redo them as well?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #178 (permalink)  
Old 07-05-2011, 07:40 PM
123pugsy's Avatar
HOT ROD...... FROM A CHRYSLER?
 
Last wiki edit: Metal shaping
Last journal entry: FLOOR BEADS
Last photo:
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Markham,ON
Age: 52
Posts: 2,413
Wiki Edits: 29

Thanks: 495
Thanked 291 Times in 251 Posts
Leave the wires on the cap.
Pull the distributor high enough to turn the rotor.
Wherever the rotor ''twists'' out at , turn it exactly 180 and it will ''twist'' down exactly onto the oil pump.
Then try to start it.

This is the most common starting problem with reinstalling a distributor.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #179 (permalink)  
Old 07-05-2011, 08:00 PM
lt1silverhawk's Avatar
"But how do it know?"
 
Last wiki edit: How to rebuild a Rochester Quadrajet 4MV carbureto... Last photo:
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Lakewood, CA
Posts: 2,287
Wiki Edits: 132

Thanks: 101
Thanked 24 Times in 17 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by 123pugsy
Leave the wires on the cap.
Pull the distributor high enough to turn the rotor.
Wherever the rotor ''twists'' out at , turn it exactly 180 and it will ''twist'' down exactly onto the oil pump.
Then try to start it.

This is the most common starting problem with reinstalling a distributor.
Got it. Gonna be home in 30. Hopefully positive something to report in an hour.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #180 (permalink)  
Old 07-05-2011, 09:45 PM
lt1silverhawk's Avatar
"But how do it know?"
 
Last wiki edit: How to rebuild a Rochester Quadrajet 4MV carbureto... Last photo:
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Lakewood, CA
Posts: 2,287
Wiki Edits: 132

Thanks: 101
Thanked 24 Times in 17 Posts
I removed the cap, rotated the distributor 180 degrees, where it fell into place. I placed the cap back on, hooked the fuel hose back up, gave it a crank. The engine would turn over a few times and then a puff of smoke from the carb. Video here:(0:14).






The battery seemed weak so I have it on charge now. Will try again once its fully charged.


I'm beginning to wonder if the original distributor position was correct and it is simply bad fuel: "Why is my carburetor spraying gas straight up? Chevy 350 edlebrock Carb?"


Will report back in a bit. Would really like to get this thing moving tonight.



EDIT: Working on replacing the aluminum fuel filters while the battery charges. Maybe dump in some fresh gas too.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	Distributor_180_Rotation_Tile.jpg
Views:	491
Size:	357.8 KB
ID:	56600  

Last edited by lt1silverhawk; 07-05-2011 at 09:55 PM.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

Tags
chevy, fuel delivery, ignition, quadrajet, timing

Recent Hotrodding Basics posts with photos

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now

In order to be able to post messages on the Hot Rod Forum : Hotrodders Bulletin Board forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name (usually not your first and last name), your email address and other required details in the form below.
User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.
Password:
Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.
Email Address:

Log-in

Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
power loss at WOT fast5 Engine 6 07-11-2010 09:04 PM
1977 f250 brakebooster problems oldfordtrucker Suspension - Brakes - Steering 3 01-30-2010 10:34 PM
loss of power 123timmy Engine 3 06-03-2007 01:20 PM
oil loss thru lifters at idle?? slr6000 Engine 6 10-10-2005 09:40 AM
chevrolet 327/350 starting trouble hk51 Introduce Yourself 0 07-10-2004 07:29 PM


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 05:10 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0 PL2
Copyright Hotrodders.com 1999 - 2012. All Rights Reserved.