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  #106 (permalink)  
Old 04-27-2011, 04:06 PM
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when you are done with the chem dip, you can buff those bolts on a wire wheel if you have one. when you install them again, coat them with oil or if they go into the water jacket, sealant like permatex aircraft, the brown stuff that never dries. if you have a tap set, tap into the threads in the heads so you don't end up jammimg a bolt in the crud that is probably in the threads now. by the looks of things you should think about flushing the block water jacket out with a garden hose while the intake is off. there are plugs at the bottom of the block on both sides that can be removed so the crud can run out. disconnect the lower rad hose as well and flush through the rad and heater core (just don't over do the pressure on the heater core or you will spring a leak. it's not meant for anything more than 16 psi). also, under the stock intake manifold is a tin cover. if you remove that (don't loose the rivets cause you gotta re-use them. use a small cold chisel to try to turn them out. they have what almost looks like a thread on them, usually) you will find all kinds of carbon build up. you will probably need to chip the carbon out of the exhaust crossover port under the carb as well. it is in the middle of the manifold, (front to back middle), and goes in one side and out the other. it will match up to couple of dirty looking ports in the cylinder head. if you are having the parts diped in the hot tank at your engine shop, they will likely do that for you but not always. it is always a good idea to remove the carb from the manifold before you remove the manifold, otherwise when the manifold tips over the loose stuff in the bottom of the carb ends up where it isn't wanted.
good luck,
dsraven

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  #107 (permalink)  
Old 04-27-2011, 07:35 PM
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hey dsraven,
Quote:
Originally Posted by dsraven
when you are done with the chem dip, you can buff those bolts on a wire wheel if you have one.
I've been looking for an excuse to buy a grinder. Guess I got one now. I imagine wire brushes would be effective too?




Quote:
Originally Posted by dsraven
when you install them again, coat them with oil or if they go into the water jacket, sealant like permatex aircraft, the brown stuff that never dries.
The bolts I showed in post #105 are from the water outlet/thermostat housing, so Permatex it is.




Quote:
Originally Posted by dsraven
if you have a tap set, tap into the threads in the heads so you don't end up jammimg a bolt in the crud that is probably in the threads now.
Glad you brought that up. I would've done a simple degrease. I haven't got a tap set so that is something to add to the collection.




Quote:
Originally Posted by dsraven
by the looks of things you should think about flushing the block water jacket out with a garden hose while the intake is off. there are plugs at the bottom of the block on both sides that can be removed so the crud can run out. disconnect the lower rad hose as well and flush through the rad and heater core (just don't over do the pressure on the heater core or you will spring a leak. it's not meant for anything more than 16 psi).
Where would I put the water in from to do this?




Quote:
Originally Posted by dsraven
also, under the stock intake manifold is a tin cover. if you remove that (don't loose the rivets cause you gotta re-use them. use a small cold chisel to try to turn them out. they have what almost looks like a thread on them, usually) you will find all kinds of carbon build up. you will probably need to chip the carbon out of the exhaust crossover port under the carb as well. it is in the middle of the manifold, (front to back middle), and goes in one side and out the other. it will match up to couple of dirty looking ports in the cylinder head. if you are having the parts diped in the hot tank at your engine shop, they will likely do that for you but not always.
I wasn't planning on taking the intake to the machine shop, partly because I've located a used Edlebrock intake locally that accommodates an EGR valve as well as the divorced choke setup. I just need to go and check it out. However, for the sake of knowledge, would it be advisable to take the manifold to a machine shop for dipping?




Quote:
Originally Posted by dsraven
it is always a good idea to remove the carb from the manifold before you remove the manifold, otherwise when the manifold tips over the loose stuff in the bottom of the carb ends up where it isn't wanted.
good luck,
dsraven
I guess I never mentioned it but I removed the carburetor a while back to have better access around the valve cover area. Thanks for the tip though.



Will post back with progress and results soon.
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  #108 (permalink)  
Old 04-27-2011, 09:16 PM
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if you don't have a tap and don't want to buy one, cut a groove down the side of a bolt as far down as it will be screwed in, the dirt will collect in the groove. you have to take it in and out several times to ensure the groove cleans out.
take out the block drains and unhook the lower rad hose, then put your garden hose in the thermostat hole and flush from there. also disconnect the heater hoses and flush them out. flush the rad as well. should be clean water coming out.
if you are buying a different manifold, like an aluminum one, just clean off all the gasket surfaces, then pick up some engine degreaser and take it to the car wash. that will usually do the trick, unless it is really dirty.
good luck,
dsraven
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  #109 (permalink)  
Old 04-27-2011, 09:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dsraven
if you don't have a tap and don't want to buy one, cut a groove down the side of a bolt as far down as it will be screwed in, the dirt will collect in the groove. you have to take it in and out several times to ensure the groove cleans out.
Oh I don't mind buying it if it isn't pricey. I figure it is something that will come in handy in the future. But I like this make-it-yourself version too.




Quote:
Originally Posted by dsraven
take out the block drains and unhook the lower rad hose, then put your garden hose in the thermostat hole and flush from there. also disconnect the heater hoses and flush them out. flush the rad as well. should be clean water coming out.
Got it. So this needs to be done before the manifold is unbolted and removed. And the driver-side valve cover will need to be put back on too, of course.




Quote:
Originally Posted by dsraven
if you are buying a different manifold, like an aluminum one, just clean off all the gasket surfaces, then pick up some engine degreaser and take it to the car wash. that will usually do the trick, unless it is really dirty.
good luck,
dsraven
The manifold I'm looking at seems like the one I already have ($75 obo, see attachment 1). I also found a Weiand Action + but couldn't figure out if it was for '86 and earlier or '87 and later ($95, only used for dyno test, see attachment 2). And both seem rather clean in pictures, not that I plan on skimping out on that.




Thanks for the continued help dsraven!
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  #110 (permalink)  
Old 04-30-2011, 04:09 PM
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Today, I went ahead and flushed out the block and the radiator. The drain bolts/plugs were a bit tough but eventually came loose. I put the hose into the thermostat opening in the intake manifold, and lightly ran the water, which seemed sufficient. The clean water was flowing out in not time. Same for the radiator.









I also tried doing the heater hoses but, while I was able to loosen and move the clamps, the hoses would not come off. I was able to twist and turn them in place, but nothing more. They have deep imprints from the clamps . The set up is a bit strange too, as it has an open/close fitting. Any idea why someone would use this setup? Also, any idea on how to slip of the hoses without damaging anything?


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  #111 (permalink)  
Old 04-30-2011, 04:26 PM
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Nice record of what you're doing.
The pics will come in handy for someone in the future.

I imagine that the valve is to shut down any hot water flow into the cab during the summer.
Even if the heater is turned off , some residual heat will permeate into the cab.
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  #112 (permalink)  
Old 05-01-2011, 12:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 123pugsy
Nice record of what you're doing.
The pics will come in handy for someone in the future.
Thanks Pugsy! That is definitely one of the motivating factors behind all the documentation.




Quote:
Originally Posted by 123pugsy
I imagine that the valve is to shut down any hot water flow into the cab during the summer.
Even if the heater is turned off , some residual heat will permeate into the cab.
That's interesting. I would've never thought of that. The truck is equipped with AC, but I disconnected it because it just kept running even after the vehicle was turned off for some reason. I never did check up on that. Now might be a good time.




---------------------------------




Quote:
Originally Posted by dsraven
also, under the stock intake manifold is a tin cover. if you remove that (don't loose the rivets cause you gotta re-use them. use a small cold chisel to try to turn them out. they have what almost looks like a thread on them, usually) you will find all kinds of carbon build up. you will probably need to chip the carbon out of the exhaust crossover port under the carb as well. it is in the middle of the manifold, (front to back middle), and goes in one side and out the other. it will match up to couple of dirty looking ports in the cylinder head. if you are having the parts diped in the hot tank at your engine shop, they will likely do that for you but not always.
I removed the intake manifold this evening. Some of the bolts had oil on them. I assume that is normal? Also, any idea what the metal hose in the back of the manifold is for? And is that black stripe across the bottom of the intake the carbon buildup?

The intake manifold is an Edelbrock Performer, part #2101. Interestingly, when I punch the info on Summit for my truck, I get part #3701, which will accommodate an EGR.









I did not find the missing bolt after I removed the intake manifold. Not in the head, the intake or the lifter valley.









After boroscoping for a few minutes, I found the bolt in a port on the driver side of the lifter valley nearest to the firewall. See the 18 second video here to get an idea of where it landed. I tried to use the flexible magnet with light as well as the telescoping magnet to pick up the bolt but they were too wide. I tried using the magnetic pick up attachment for the boroscope again but it was useless (see 1:03 video here). A later test with same type of bolt showed that the the magnetic pickup attachment is completely worthless.









Quote:
Another trick is to take the magnet off the holder they sell at the auto parts place, thread or clamp it in place onto a piece of flexible rubber hose, and snake it down the runner, it will follow its contours and u can pull it up... pls post a follow up, K?

I am sure this will work, but I want to hear how it goes, thanks.


By jethro, Post #3, from "HELP!!!! I dropped a bolt into the intake" on Thirdgen.org
I went to Autozone and bought the small telescoping magnetic puck up and two feet of 5/32" fuel line. The plan is to removed the magnetic head from the telescoping stick and place it inside the hose (its a rather snug fit). Then, its time to go fishing for the bolt.

Another idea that crossed my mind was to remove the small magnetic from the pick up attackement for the boroscope and replace it using the magnet and a bit of the shaft from the telescoping magnet. This way, I can still see what's going and not go poking around in the dark. Any thoughts?









Im going to end the night by resisting the urge to try the two ideas right now. See ya'll on the flip side...
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  #113 (permalink)  
Old 05-01-2011, 04:30 AM
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First thought on the bolt is to apply the magnet to one of the other bolts you took out.

Magnets don't stick to stainless steel bolts if in fact that's what they are.

The black stripe is not carbon as the lifter valley is not exposed to combustion. (well my engine is a different case)

It is baked on oil from the exhaust crossover.
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  #114 (permalink)  
Old 05-01-2011, 11:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 123pugsy
First thought on the bolt is to apply the magnet to one of the other bolts you took out.

Magnets don't stick to stainless steel bolts if in fact that's what they are.
I tested out the magnet on the bolts and washers from the same valve cover. Sticking and strength doesn't seem to be an issue.






Quote:
Originally Posted by 123pugsy
The black stripe is not carbon as the lifter valley is not exposed to combustion. (well my engine is a different case)

It is baked on oil from the exhaust crossover.
Will this clean off? Should it be cleaned off?




-----------------------




This morning, I decided to break the magnet head and about two and a half inches of the telescopic shaft and attach it to the boroscope using electrical tape. On the first attempt at pick up, the magnet proved to be too close to the boroscope's lens and kept getting stuck near the bolt (see 2 minute video here). I then extended the magnet forward by about and inch and tried again. This time, the bolt stuck to the magnet, and I took my time bringing to surface in order to avoid the mishap from last time (the bolt scraped against the head and fell back down the drain port, landing where it was found yesterday). The bolt came out with no issues (see 1 minute video here).








One bolt still remains missing. I believe it has fallen behind the engine. I will look for it the next chance I get. In the mean time the next item on the list is cleaning up the intake manifold. I assume new gaskets are required?
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  #115 (permalink)  
Old 05-01-2011, 01:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lt1silverhawk

Will this clean off? Should it be cleaned off?




In the mean time the next item on the list is cleaning up the intake manifold. I assume new gaskets are required?

New gaskets must be used.
Throw away the front and rear rubber seals and use only RTV silicone at these two places. They WILL leak if you use them.

As for cleaning the intake, I thought you mentioned the need for an EGR manifold. If you're replacing the manifold then you don't need to clean the black stripe off.

It would probably be the same if you clean it or not as the stripe will reappear in no time.
If it were mine, I would clean it.
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  #116 (permalink)  
Old 05-01-2011, 02:47 PM
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there is a product called "the right stuff" by permatex I think. it is a quicker drying silicone, so if you need to get it running sooner try that. if you use rtv, don't put oil or coolant in the engine untill the next day or it may track itself out through the silicone and you will find a seeping type leak over time. read the directions (when nobody is looking of course).run a tap through all the holes you will be putting bolts in as well, then use either oil, antisieze, sealer, or loctite on the threads never install a bolt without one of those items used on the threads first. for the long flat gasket surfaces you can use a piece of body sandpaper, like 100 or 180 grit, stapled onto a piece of plywood or similar long flat board, to clean upthe gakset surfaces. orif you want to spend a little cashola, get one of the buffer pads with the scotchbrite material and run t on your drill. just be carefull because on aluminum it will take the material of as well as the gasket.
make sure to use the boroscope throgh any possible holes to find that *&^% bolt before you start assembly.
have fun,
dsraven
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  #117 (permalink)  
Old 05-01-2011, 04:22 PM
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The bolts should have sealant as I've had oil come up thru the threads and puddle on the intake before.

PCV was probably not fuctioning properly at the time but the Permatex 2 stopped the seepage.
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  #118 (permalink)  
Old 05-02-2011, 06:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dsraven
there is a product called "the right stuff" by permatex I think. it is a quicker drying silicone, so if you need to get it running sooner try that. if you use rtv, don't put oil or coolant in the engine untill the next day or it may track itself out through the silicone and you will find a seeping type leak over time. read the directions (when nobody is looking of course).run a tap through all the holes you will be putting bolts in as well, then use either oil, antisieze, sealer, or loctite on the threads never install a bolt without one of those items used on the threads first. for the long flat gasket surfaces you can use a piece of body sandpaper, like 100 or 180 grit, stapled onto a piece of plywood or similar long flat board, to clean upthe gakset surfaces. orif you want to spend a little cashola, get one of the buffer pads with the scotchbrite material and run t on your drill. just be carefull because on aluminum it will take the material of as well as the gasket.
make sure to use the boroscope throgh any possible holes to find that *&^% bolt before you start assembly.
have fun,
dsraven
You need to be cautious with those Scotchbrite style disks. Some, the brown ones, contain abrasive material that will end up in the engine and wipe out bearings in short order. The green disks that look like a rubber broom are much better and don't contain abrasive particles.
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  #119 (permalink)  
Old 05-02-2011, 08:06 AM
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I never thought of the flying grit factor.

Going at it with a putty knife and rags stuck in all the holes is probably the safest way to go.

Time consuming but safe.
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  #120 (permalink)  
Old 05-02-2011, 09:20 AM
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I have seen a few instances where people have lost engines after an intake leak repair and the mating surfaces were cleaned with one of the brown Scotchbrite style pads. We actually sent oil out from one that another shop had done it is came back with silicate I believe it was in the oil.
Engine blew 5 days after an intake gasket job (we didnt do it).
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