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  #121 (permalink)  
Old 05-02-2011, 11:27 AM
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Hey 123pugsy, dsraven and T-Bucket23,

Quote:
Originally Posted by 123pugsy
New gaskets must be used.
Throw away the front and rear rubber seals and use only RTV silicone at these two places. They WILL leak if you use them.
Got it.




Quote:
Originally Posted by 123pugsy
As for cleaning the intake, I thought you mentioned the need for an EGR manifold. If you're replacing the manifold then you don't need to clean the black stripe off.
I am still researching the whole EGR issue. I found some information but want to double check with the forum members first before I make my case with the smog shop or the smog ref for the state. I believe my truck did not come with an EGR valve but I did locate a used Weiand locally just in case I need it. I will be posting what I found on this thread: "1977Chevrolet C/K Series Truck Identification and Smog Equipment Verification".




Quote:
Originally Posted by 123pugsy
It would probably be the same if you clean it or not as the stripe will reappear in no time.
If it were mine, I would clean it.
Good to know about the stripe. I would clean it too if it ever went back on. I will give it a thorough cleaning, whether it gets replaced or not.




Quote:
Originally Posted by dsraven
there is a product called "the right stuff" by permatex I think. it is a quicker drying silicone, so if you need to get it running sooner try that. if you use rtv, don't put oil or coolant in the engine untill the next day or it may track itself out through the silicone and you will find a seeping type leak over time. read the directions (when nobody is looking of course).
Quote:
Originally Posted by 123pugsy
You'll have to take off the cover, tap the metal back flat if its bent down again. Try something called Right Stuff on both sides of the gasket if you don't want to buy new covers.
Lol! I'll close the garage door before I attempt this thing called "reading". Might be a bit rusty at it though... So that's two votes for the Right Stuff. I think I already pick up a can. If not, I'll buy it soon.




----------------------------------




Quote:
Originally Posted by dsraven
run a tap through all the holes you will be putting bolts in as well, then use either oil, antisieze, sealer, or loctite on the threads never install a bolt without one of those items used on the threads first.
Quote:
Originally Posted by 123pugsy
The bolts should have sealant as I've had oil come up thru the threads and puddle on the intake before.

PCV was probably not fuctioning properly at the time but the Permatex 2 stopped the seepage.
Added to the list. Never realized a clogged PCV could do that.




---------------------------




Quote:
Originally Posted by dsraven
for the long flat gasket surfaces you can use a piece of body sandpaper, like 100 or 180 grit, stapled onto a piece of plywood or similar long flat board, to clean upthe gakset surfaces. orif you want to spend a little cashola, get one of the buffer pads with the scotchbrite material and run t on your drill. just be carefull because on aluminum it will take the material of as well as the gasket.
Quote:
Originally Posted by T-bucket23
You need to be cautious with those Scotchbrite style disks. Some, the brown ones, contain abrasive material that will end up in the engine and wipe out bearings in short order. The green disks that look like a rubber broom are much better and don't contain abrasive particles.
Quote:
Originally Posted by 123pugsy
I never thought of the flying grit factor.

Going at it with a putty knife and rags stuck in all the holes is probably the safest way to go.

Time consuming but safe.
Quote:
Originally Posted by T-bucket23
I have seen a few instances where people have lost engines after an intake leak repair and the mating surfaces were cleaned with one of the brown Scotchbrite style pads. We actually sent oil out from one that another shop had done it is came back with silicate I believe it was in the oil.
Engine blew 5 days after an intake gasket job (we didnt do it).
Yikes, glad you guys brought up all this before I started. So my thinking is, cover all ports and holes with rags and shop towels, scrape off what I can using a blade or putty knife. And then smooth it out perhaps using sand paper?




-----------------------------




Quote:
Originally Posted by dsraven
make sure to use the boroscope throgh any possible holes to find that *&^% bolt before you start assembly.
have fun,
dsraven
Oh I'm having loads of fun learning, believe it or not. I must point out that after I lost the first bolt, I did start the engine after replacing the bolt and ran it for quite a while as I was playing with the timing. I stopped after the oil began leaking out from the same valve cover. But I will use the boroscope to see what I can find. I will also try fishing behind the engine using the hose and magnet.



Thanks for the tips and pointers guys!

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  #122 (permalink)  
Old 05-02-2011, 12:10 PM
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Do not use sand paper for the same reason as the brown "cookie" style Scotch bright disks. You want to avoid abrasives in the engine at all costs. A good scraper, not a razor blade will get 99% of it off. You can use a wire wheel or one of the disks I mentioned earlier to get the rest. There are chemicals that also will dissolve old gaskets and gasket cement, I don't
recommend them but they are available.
A good scraper has a nice clean 90* edge, not a sharp edge like a razor.
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  #123 (permalink)  
Old 05-02-2011, 01:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by T-bucket23
Do not use sand paper for the same reason as the brown "cookie" style Scotch bright disks. You want to avoid abrasives in the engine at all costs. A good scraper, not a razor blade will get 99% of it off. You can use a wire wheel or one of the disks I mentioned earlier to get the rest. There are chemicals that also will dissolve old gaskets and gasket cement, I don't
recommend them but they are available.
A good scraper has a nice clean 90* edge, not a sharp edge like a razor.
Ok, scraper it is. I will also see if I can get the wire wheels too. I have used the spray-type gasket removers before but I would hate to get that stuff inside any ports or holes, etc.
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  #124 (permalink)  
Old 05-08-2011, 06:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dsraven
make sure to use the boroscope throgh any possible holes to find that *&^% bolt before you start assembly.
have fun,
dsraven
I tried looking for the remaining missing valve cover bolt today.

I boroscoped through all the holes and ports in the lifter valley. No bolt found.
















As planned in post #122, I went ahead and put the small magnet inside the hose. I fished behind the engine from the top as well below. I fished over the transmission and around the cross member. No bolt was found.






I then shook the truck from side to side and backwards and forwards as hard as I could. Aside from a little water, nothing fell out. I then put it neutral, pushed it forward a few feet, and broomed the place where it had been parked. I then went over the collected dust with a magnet. No bolt.




I don't think the bolt is inside the engine. As I mentioned in an earlier post, after losing the first bolt, I did start and run the engine for quite a while as I adjusted the timing. Didn't hear any weird noises from the engine at any time (see video here). I believe it may have fallen in some far recess that I can neither see nor access with the magnet.




Any thoughts?
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  #125 (permalink)  
Old 05-14-2011, 07:20 PM
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Getting ready to go shopping for the tools you guys recommended for cleaning the mating surfaces and wanted some input on the items I am considering.




Since Harbor Freight is close by and has a "20% off entire purchase" coupon, I'll be buying as much as I can there.

- Scrapper: Carbon/Gasket Scrapper.

- Wire Wheels: I really don't know which one(s) to get. Wire wheels.

- Tap & Die Set: Harbor Freight has several sets with various quantities of parts. What's areasonable set? Tap & Die sets.




Also, what is the best way to get the grease and and crud off the intake manifold? Can I just use a wire brush and degreaser?
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  #126 (permalink)  
Old 05-15-2011, 04:41 AM
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Gasket scraper will be OK.

I like the 4'' wire brush with the 1/4'' shank. This can run in any drill although a high speed drill works the best.

A cheap tap and die set will work for chasing the threads, but be careful!!!
I just don't trust some cheap tools.

Try oven cleaner on the baked on oil on the underside of the intake.
If you want to use a wire brush in conjuntion with a cleaner such as Castrol Super Clean, make sure its one of those with a handle so you don't give yourself a shower.
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  #127 (permalink)  
Old 05-15-2011, 10:42 AM
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Hey pugsy,
Quote:
Originally Posted by 123pugsy
Gasket scraper will be OK.

I like the 4'' wire brush with the 1/4'' shank. This can run in any drill although a high speed drill works the best.
Good, will definitely pick those up.




Quote:
Originally Posted by 123pugsy
A cheap tap and die set will work for chasing the threads, but be careful!!!
I just don't trust some cheap tools.
The only other place I can think of going to is Autozone, but I swear most of their tools look like they came from the same manufacturer as Harbor Freight, just at a much higher cost. Kragens/'O'Riley's or Pep Boys might have better quality tools. If the risk is too high, I am willing to wait and buy online, if you or anyone else has a recommendation.




Quote:
Originally Posted by 123pugsy
Try oven cleaner on the baked on oil on the underside of the intake.
If you want to use a wire brush in conjuntion with a cleaner such as Castrol Super Clean, make sure its one of those with a handle so you don't give yourself a shower.
I should have some oven cleaner. I bought three wire brushes last night and used 'em to clean the top of the intake manifold. I learned that not even the handle is enough; those cleaners can fly everywhere.




----------------------------------------------




So, like I mentioned, I tried cleaning the top of the intake manifold last night. I tried using a regular engine degreaser a couple of days ago and that didn't do anything. Before I tried again, I tried removed the plate for the divorced choke and, to my surprise, found the the lower bolt can't be turned because the head is right next to the plate itself. How the heck did they get that on there? I used Gunk's heavy duty gel version and a set of brass and stainless steel brushes. That removed quite a bit of it, but still left some glaring deposits. I finished by wiping the intake down down with a shop towel.


I did some searching on this forum and found these two threads that gave me some ideas: "what is the best way to clean cast aluminum" and "found the ultimate degreaser".


I tried using the carb cleaner spray next. used about a can and a half (over stock from the carburetor rebuild). That took a lot of grease off (anyone else like how cold the parts feel after a good dose of carb cleaner?). I wiped the intake manifold down again with a shop towel.


Next, I tried a foamy wheel cleaner, Eagle F1, and some brushing. Because the directions on the bottle said to wash off the cleaner after 30 seconds, I moved quickly. After washing and wiping down the intake, it seemed somewhat cleaner.


I ended for the night by using the remaining Gunk's gel, letting it soak in and brushing whatever I could. Its definitely cleaner that what I started with.


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  #128 (permalink)  
Old 05-15-2011, 02:33 PM
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I went to Autozone to check out their tap and die sets. I picked up this 40 piece set.

I then went to Harbor Freight to buy the 4" wire wheel. I decided to check out their tap and die sets as well. Their 40 piece set is suspiciously similar to the one at Autozone. The only thing that is different is the carry case. As I said in my last post, I believe they both carry tools from the same manufacturer, and Autozone simple charges more ($10 difference, in this case). I even saw a carbon gasket scraper that looks extremely similar to the one listed on the Harbor Freight website. And if the tap and die sets are indeed from the same manufacturere, the reviews on the Harbor Freight website are evenly split, it seems.

I have not yet opened the set from Autozone, in case anyone suggests trying another brand/store. I went online to the Sears website to check out their sets, and they also have a 40 piece set at a price closer to Autozone's.

Also, do I need a metric or an SAE set? Or should I invest in a combo set the first time? The one I bought at AutoZone is the metric set.
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  #129 (permalink)  
Old 05-15-2011, 02:56 PM
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For chasing engine threads, you'll need SAE.

Grab yourself a cheap combo set, just be careful.
If you feel too much pressure back off and go at it again slowly.
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  #130 (permalink)  
Old 06-09-2011, 11:31 PM
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So, it's been almost a month since I updated this thread. Got a chance to work on the truck this week. For summary, the intake manifold, distributor, carburetor, and driver-side valve cover were removed from the engine to chase down a missing bolt, which may have never fallen in the engine, it seems.

After coming to that conclusion, I moved on to the "put everything back together" phase.




-----------------------




I had previously scrubbed down the intake manifold (post #127). This past weekend, I cleaned off the mating surfaces on the heads. I stuffed shop towels into the port openings. Unfortunately, some of them were sticking out a bit and got caught in the wire wheel, sending bits and pieces that tore off flying everywhere. Won't use those next time. Lesson learned. I will be cleaning it all out using a rag and compressed air, unless someone has a better suggestion.




---------------------------




Quote:
Originally Posted by 123pugsy
For chasing engine threads, you'll need SAE.

Grab yourself a cheap combo set, just be careful.
If you feel too much pressure back off and go at it again slowly.
I went ahead and purchased the 40 piece SAE tap and die set from Harbor Freight.






I used size 3/8" x 16 tap to clean out the threads. Didn't turn out to be too hard. The only place I had a hard time was near the from and rear of the block, where the large T-handle was too big and kept hitting things. Luckily, I had a smaller T-handle from a previous attempt, and its handle slides in both directions to avoid hitting anything. I tested each hole by screwing in a manifold bolt. I noticed after while that the holes are actually open, and some of them are right in front of the push rods. I am sure I didn't go deep enough with the tap or the bolt to even touch them, but I will be more careful in the future. Lesson learned. My cleaning procedure was to run the tap, clean it with carb cleaner spray and wipe down with rag, test the threads with the bolt, spray and wipe down the bolt, repeat on the next hole.






I Chem-dipped and wire-brush cleaned all the bolts but three of them were pretty bad. I Chem-dipped 'em 'em for another few hours, wire-brushed and carb-sprayed 'em but no good. So I stuck each one in the vice, and cleaned them up using the wire wheel on the drill. In the end, the look much cleaner than before, but I'm afraid I may have removed some materials here and there. I tested one out and it was fine. Should I be on the safe side and replace them?






------------------




Quote:
Originally Posted by dsraven
run a tap through all the holes you will be putting bolts in as well, then use either oil, antisieze, sealer, or loctite on the threads never install a bolt without one of those items used on the threads first.
Quote:
Originally Posted by 123pugsy
The bolts should have sealant as I've had oil come up thru the threads and puddle on the intake before.
I bought a bottle of the Right Stuff. I will be using this on the driver-side valve cover tomorrow. I still need to buy the Loctite for the threads.





-----------------------




Quote:
Originally Posted by dsraven
there is a product called "the right stuff" by permatex I think. it is a quicker drying silicone, so if you need to get it running sooner try that. if you use rtv, don't put oil or coolant in the engine untill the next day or it may track itself out through the silicone and you will find a seeping type leak over time. read the directions (when nobody is looking of course).
Quote:
Originally Posted by 123pugsy
New gaskets must be used.
Throw away the front and rear rubber seals and use only RTV silicone at these two places. They WILL leak if you use them.
I'm confused by this one. I went ahead and bought a set of gaskets, which include the front and rear seals. Are you suggesting that I ditch those two and strictly use the RTV stuff? Also, the gasket set came with restrictor plates. I figure I won't be needing those.






----------------




Aside from all of the above, I also plan on putting back the distributor tomorrow, along with doing a motor and radiator flush to get all the junk out. Any tips before I do anything with the distributor?
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  #131 (permalink)  
Old 06-10-2011, 03:55 AM
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[QUOTE=lt1silverhawk
-----------------------
Should I be on the safe side and replace them?

I'm confused by this one. I went ahead and bought a set of gaskets, which include the front and rear seals. Are you suggesting that I ditch those two and strictly use the RTV stuff?
[/QUOTE]

Bolts are fine.
The gummed up parts are where they go thru the manifold and the threads don't do anything.
Make sure to use sealant on the threads.

As for the rubber intake gaskets, yes toss em (unless you want to do this job twice).
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  #132 (permalink)  
Old 06-11-2011, 11:26 PM
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Hey pugsy,
Quote:
Originally Posted by 123pugsy
Bolts are fine.
The gummed up parts are where they go thru the manifold and the threads don't do anything.
Make sure to use sealant on the threads.

As for the rubber intake gaskets, yes toss em (unless you want to do this job twice).
Got it. I used the bolts today and they seemed fine. I used the Loctite sealant on them. And I used the black RTV in place of the rubber gaskets.




Today, I began my work day by learning how to change a damaged avlve stem and repair the bead using starting lfuid and matches. Fun! Except for the fact there is a new and a broken valve stem rolling around inside the tire. Gotta works on these hands...




After that, I went ahead and tackled the driver-side valve cover. I used the Right Stuff Gasket maker. Seems to work very quick.






I also used the blue Loctite on the bolts. It turned out that the ARP bolts were too long, I imagine because I didn't use the rubber gasket this time. So I used the three original bolts ad the wing washers, and one of the ARP bolts with the wing washer as well as the two chrome washers the set came with. Btw, that Loctite stuff is expensive. $23 for the bottle. And I am sure I wasted alot of it due to Operation Overkill.






Once the valve cover was done, I went and ahead and spread the black RTV gasket maker on the engine and also stuck the intake manifold gaskets to the heads using a bit of RTV here and there. Then I set down the manifold, bolted it down by tightening the bolts diagonally, and finished by the putting some Right Stuff around the edges of the manifold.






I am now waiting for the gasket maker stuff to dry over night and tomorrow. I will do the distributor next. I will be using this image as reference to where the rotor was position when I pulled it out.






After the distributor, is the wire set, carburetor and various hoses and linkages. The plan is to them fill the radiator with water and get the truck started. Once its up and running, flush out all the water as well as the motor oil, along with the filter, and put in some clean stuff.



Everything look ok so far? Anything I should double check or correct before moving on?
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  #133 (permalink)  
Old 06-12-2011, 07:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lt1silverhawk
Everything look ok so far?
No.

The blue Locktite is thread locker, not sealant.
It may work, so I could be wrong.
The RTV black could have been used instead and wouldn't have cost you anymore. Anyways, its always good to have around. You'll need it someday. I like Permatex 2.

Also the bead of RTV at the front and rear didn't appear too ''high'' in the pics. It must be tall enough to bridge the gap and a little ''squish'' as it sets down.

I've never eliminated rocker cover gaskets completely before. I've used sealant with the gaskets. Not sure about this one.

Hopefully someone else comments as well.
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  #134 (permalink)  
Old 06-12-2011, 07:14 AM
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For the distributor, now is the time to learn the correct process of install.

Once you learn it things will become clear about timing, TDC, and compression stroke.
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  #135 (permalink)  
Old 06-12-2011, 09:09 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 123pugsy
No.

The blue Locktite is thread locker, not sealant.
It may work, so I could be wrong.
The RTV black could have been used instead and wouldn't have cost you anymore. Anyways, its always good to have around. You'll need it someday. I like Permatex 2.
Yes, Permatex 2. That was my mistake for missing it and assuming thread locker would do the same thing.




Quote:
Originally Posted by 123pugsy
Also the bead of RTV at the front and rear didn't appear too ''high'' in the pics. It must be tall enough to bridge the gap and a little ''squish'' as it sets down.
Then I better correct this now. Though it did seems to squish a bit, but that could just be my imagination.




Quote:
Originally Posted by 123pugsy
I've never eliminated rocker cover gaskets completely before. I've used sealant with the gaskets. Not sure about this one.
I misunderstood. I thought the Right Stuff was the gasket maker stuff. No wonder the ARP bolt wouldn't fit. I will correct this.


Ok, everything else will be on hold until I fix this.


Thanks for catching all this!
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