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Old 05-08-2009, 10:13 PM
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1988 Olds 307 mtr

I don't have to run emissions on this motor so I want to remove ALL the emission garbage. It has about 9 miles of vacuum tubing going to about 20 different electric emission hook ups along w/a Electric Q-jet & a none vacuum advance dist.

Other then removing all the vacuum garbage along with swapping out the carb(to non-electric) & dist(to vacuum HEI) is there anything special I should do like re-gap the plugs &/or change the timing???



Last edited by TooMany2count; 05-08-2009 at 10:19 PM.
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Old 05-08-2009, 11:46 PM
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howdy there Joe

does it run bad ? i mean do you have to remove all of this stuff because its failing and causing it to run bad ?

to do this you'll need to find an oldsmobile v-8 before the 1980 year to get the carb and distributor you will need. 1980 was the first year for this ESC/EST system on most of the GM engines/vehicles. but some had it as early as 1978; but no v-8's i believe.

the harness to the ECM for all this electronic spark timing system is all on the pass side by itself and removable without affecting the main underhood harness for the functions of the engine such as temperature, oil pressure, starter, alternator, etc. but it will disable the transmission converter clutch function and you will need to do something about that to make it work again becaus it is controled by the same ECM as the EST/ESC system.

you will also have many TVS's in the thermostat housing and intake manifold that will need to be removed and replaced with water pipe plugs, because just sitting there not connected to anything will look bad, worse than the many vacuum hoses there already to them.

i really would leave it alone if it runs and drives fine though and save yourself some parts hunting and troubles of having to re-stab the ditributor and do other things like that. youre also gonna still need the charcoal canister to keep the fuel tank vapors and allow them to be taken in by the engine and burnt, and you will still need some other vacuum hoses as well. alot of the hoses are running many legitimate functions such as EFE and the air cleaner warm air door and other things that are good tohave especially if it is in a climate location where it gets cold,

you will actually also want to keep the EGR intact as well, it allows some exhaust back into the intake to be burnt again, this exhaust will have some unburnt fuel in it.

so its not gonna be spotless and be totally devoid of hoses even after removing the E4ME carb and ESC distributor and ECM harness. these E4ME carbs were very fuel efficient when in good condition and when parts such as the plugs wires and cap and such are good.

the only time i do this on my engines is if the carb is shot and flooding out due to failed mixture solenoid etc inside it, or other major issues. and if i can find a correct non EST donor engine for the carb and distributor, etc.

just my $.02 hope ive helped maybe somehow.

good luck!

Last edited by fast68; 05-08-2009 at 11:59 PM.
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Old 05-09-2009, 02:18 AM
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Don't assume that the emissions "garbage" is holding you back. The emissions "crap" as you call it has nothing to do with the HP potential of the 307. People always incorrectly assume that emissions hoses are responsible for the low power output of 70s and 80s engines, but that's not the case. Your 307 has about 7.8:1 compression, and a cam that is so small its lobes are like a stick with acne.

If you go chasing HP by removing all those 9 miles of hoses, you're in for a major project that will net you almost zero HP. Its true that it LOOKS like a complicated mess, but you'd be surprised how remarkably simple it is. If you go ripping it out, you not only have to change carburetors, you have to retune that carb, completely recurve a new distributor, and all you'll get out of it is 2 hp and a few less MPG.

Unless its malfunctioning, leave it alone. You'll just go through a ton of headache for zero gains in power, and a net loss in MPG. If you REALLY want to change things, fix the REAL problem; cam, compression, and the horrific 7A heads you have on there. A simple swap to 5A heads with the right mild cam can net you an easy 40 hp... which considering you only have about 140 right now, that's a big deal. Honestly... take the intake off and look at the pinky-sized ports in those 7A heads. You'll be shocked that it makes the 140 advertised HP it does. The 5A heads are still horrifically pathetic, but they are easily twice the head of the 7A. It is my contention that the 7A is the single worst head GM ever created as far as flow, followed closely by the chevy TBI swirl port heads.

The abyssmal power outputs of the smog years had NOTHING to do with the additional smog equipment, and I'll break it down for you:

-EGR has absolutely zero effect on peak HP. EGR only functions during part throttle cruise. In most American V8s it is remarkably reliable, and even if it does fail, its a $15 part that can be replaced with pliers in 10 minutes by a chimpanzee. The upside is that it allows for much leaner cruise mixtures which not only reduces NOx emissions by as much as 7 times, it also saves you money by keeping MPG as high as possible.

-The catalytic converter behind your 307 is easily capable of supporting 250+ hp. Unless you're planning major engine changes, the catalyst won't be an issue.

-The stock electronic Qjet is excellent at keeping the engine operating properly in stock form. Its not the greatest for performance use, but unless you're planning a complete re-engineering of the engine, keep it.

-The only thing in the arsenal that really has any possible effect on power is the air pump. It takes about 1/3 hp to operate, and all it does is inject fresh air in the exhaust to help burn off excess HC.

I really get fired up about this crap.... Folks, this "smog equipment" myth started in 1969, and it is still rampant today despite the fact that it has been a complete non-issue since about 1990. I really wish folks would investigate the facts. I get so tired of people buying a 1985 car and then expecting major power or reliability gains by removing the smog equipment.

Anyone who thinks that 80's smog vacuum lines are complex, I gladly invite them to diagnose the problems I'm currently fixing on a 2005 Buick 3800 supercharged engine.

Last edited by curtis73; 05-09-2009 at 02:24 AM.
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Old 05-09-2009, 05:28 AM
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I would also like to add that at full throttle the ecm reverts to a power mode which enriches the fuel mixture , puts timing where it should be for max power etc.The egr valve has an added advantage of reducing fuel octane requirements at cruise preventing detonation under load.If your wanting to tinker You can richen or lean the cruise mixture by playing with the metering rod ht. on the primaries
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Old 05-09-2009, 08:18 AM
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Thanks folks, I'm not wanting to do this for HP potential or emissions(doesn't get tested), hell this is basically a gutless mtr. I know this as well as you folks, but it's what's in my car right now. I guess I could drop my 425Caddy mtr in it if I wanted to but thats just more work I don't want to do unless it's a "Have To".

BUT the main reason I wanted to do this is..
#1 to get rid of all that damn vacuum hose.
#2 the carb is running rich & I have found almost NO ONE can or wants to mess w/those electric Q-jets & the ones that do want to bend me over a barrel to touch it.
#3 just to make it easier for me to work on.

Here's another question, I have a buddy that will help make up a stand alone TBI set up, what emissions stuff on that mtr would HAVE to stay or can go.......TIA..joe
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Old 05-09-2009, 08:52 AM
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For a stand alone you would at least need a map sensor, throttle position sensor, oxygen sensor, coolant temp sensor, intake air temp sensor.If it is running pig rich now the 3c system has problems and converting to older Q-jet and vac- mechanical advance would make sense in that case.
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