1993 700R4 Transmission Upgrades?? - Page 3 - Hot Rod Forum : Hotrodders Bulletin Board
Hotrodders.com -- Hot Rod Forum



Register FAQ Search Today's Posts Unanswered Posts Auto Escrow Insurance Auto Loans
Hot Rod Forum : Hotrodders Bulletin Board > Tech Help> Transmission - Rearend
User Name
Password
lost password?   |   register now

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
  #31 (permalink)  
Old 02-07-2004, 09:23 PM
Crosley's Avatar
Hotrodders.com Moderator
 
Last wiki edit: T-350 rebuild tech
Last journal entry: Bar under the dash
Last photo:
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: ... USA
Posts: 8,045
Wiki Edits: 1659

Thanks: 311
Thanked 91 Times in 88 Posts
does your drive shell look like this? The re-enforced spline area?


The hole where it is pulled apart , is a balance hole from GM.


    Advertisement
__________________
Some people are like Slinkies... Not really good for anything, but they still bring a smile to your face when you push them down a flight of stairs.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
  #32 (permalink)  
Old 02-08-2004, 06:03 PM
Member
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Calgary, Alberta
Posts: 39
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
No.

The TDS drive shell is basically a "Beast" shell that they stress relieve, balance then re-harden.

They supplied a plastic backup thrust washer and a torrington bearing to replace the stock plastic thrust washer.

The plastic washer has 4 locating pins that fit into the back of the shell, then the torrington bearing goes on top of the plastic washer.

The step area around the splines is gone and replaced with a taper from the back of the hub (thicker) tapering down to the shell. This provides added clearance to allow the new thrust washer to butt up against the shell.

I should have taken a picture before installing it but I'm not going to fight with that @#$ snap ring again.

Also there is no balance holes in the TDS part like the one you show in the pix.

Question how do you keep the forward pressure plate housing from fall off the foward pressure plate when you are working the inner pressure plate lip seal over the seal protector?

Turn the transmission so its facing bellhousing down?

Any problem using a 4L65E 13 vane pump rotor of the correct thickness in a 4L60?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #33 (permalink)  
Old 02-08-2004, 07:44 PM
Crosley's Avatar
Hotrodders.com Moderator
 
Last wiki edit: T-350 rebuild tech
Last journal entry: Bar under the dash
Last photo:
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: ... USA
Posts: 8,045
Wiki Edits: 1659

Thanks: 311
Thanked 91 Times in 88 Posts
Cool

you would think Torque Drive would update their web site. They show the same OE sun shell that is modified, not a " Beast " unit that you mention.

Or I am looking at the wrong site?
__________________
Some people are like Slinkies... Not really good for anything, but they still bring a smile to your face when you push them down a flight of stairs.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #34 (permalink)  
Old 03-03-2004, 02:29 PM
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Ohio
Age: 41
Posts: 32
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
A place called Finish Line Performance also shows the modified Beast sun gear shells that use the torrington. When I first looked at it, it appeared much different than the TDE setup. You could see the serial numbers stamped around the edge on the bottom. I like the idea of not having the holes drilled all over the unit. Look at that top picture where it shows the wall of the sun shells up against each other. Look how much thicker the "beast" type shell is.



http://www.flp2win.com/

Who is TDS? I've never heard of them. Where are they located?

I've been trying to find a better sprag. GM has the new high speed sprag that I've been putting a BW element in in the builds I've been doing. These new sprags have much less slop with the sun gear pressed in and have 4 additional lube holes.

I've heard rumor that Carl Rossler has a billet sprag but I don't know if they sell parts.

I've also heard of a place called Gentry Transmission that supposedly can get billet sprags but I can't find a phone number for them.

Here's where I saw them:
http://hometown.aol.com/scaryfastlt1/LT1.html

Unfortunately, the guy that made the website didn't give an email address so I can't get ahold of him to find out more about it.

I have a mechanical diode (no longer in production) in my Typhoon but I'm pulling it when I upgrade my tranny this spring. Seen too many broken ones.

I know Rossler has on site CNC machining capability so its VERY possible he has the billet unit.

It'd be nice if someone could CNC a sprag with the sun gear MADE into it instead of a powdered metal unit pressed in. That way, there would be no slop and would be a better material.

Sorry if I took the thread off topic.

Last edited by bugsdad; 03-03-2004 at 02:35 PM.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #35 (permalink)  
Old 03-06-2004, 07:42 PM
Member
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Calgary, Alberta
Posts: 39
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Unhappy 4L60 build - gone sour

After finishing the trans, I hauled it down to the local tranny shop and ran it on the dyno.

In manual 1 and rev. we got smoke coming out of the vent.

Upon inspection the 2nd seal ring from the front of the input shaft was cut and there was metal in the pan.

Further tear down revealed that the front roller clutch encountered a problem.

The inner race rear surface (sheet metal washer) which keeps the roller dogs from walking out the back of the roller clutch was badly worn, the front surface of the front planetary carrier had a groove worn in it where the washer dug into the front planetary carrier. Also the washer got so hot it spot welded itself to the outer roller clutch race. Some thing was exerting pressure on this part.

I'm looking for help on what could have caused this, all the thrust bearing are in place and the overall end play was ~0.025".

Any chance that the cut seal could cause this?

????
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #36 (permalink)  
Old 03-06-2004, 07:48 PM
Member
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Calgary, Alberta
Posts: 39
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
torque drive drum

Since I had to tear the tarns down I took a pix of the new TDS shell.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	dscf0120.jpg
Views:	184
Size:	55.6 KB
ID:	1353  
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #37 (permalink)  
Old 03-17-2004, 07:36 AM
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Ohio
Age: 41
Posts: 32
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
That made your overruns apply any time your fowards were applied. When in fourth, you want your fowards applied but not the overruns as the overruns would try to make the sprag active. The input planetary is the input in fourth, not the sun gear. In fourth, the sprag should be overrunning, not holding. This is what most likely burned up your sprag. I don't think your end play had anything to do with it.

Did you have any trouble getting the output shaft snap ring in? Thanks for the picture. Just wondering if there was any clearance issues with the sunshell setup. Did the washer look melted or anything? When you put your new reverse clutch stack together, what was it's measurement. I think 1.18" to 1.24" is what they consider acceptable.

When you measure total unit endplay, make sure you check it with you NEW setup and not just rely on what it was when you took it apart.

If any of this is wrong, just slap me around a little.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #38 (permalink)  
Old 03-17-2004, 08:33 AM
67 Nova 400sbc.4L60
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Windsor Ontario Canada
Posts: 110
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
3/4 release springs

Quote:
Originally posted by Crosley
IF you run the 3/4 release springs I would remove the springs.... then grind off about .050 for extra clearance during clutch pack apply. Re-install the springs for use

I don't run the release springs in any thing but a pure OE rebuild with the thick .106 steel plates like a 4L60E or 4L65e.

In a HP tranny I run TransGo spring kits on aluminum or steel pistons in the aluminum drum.
HI Tony .Just trying to get it straight in my head. I have 1997 4L60E from a Trans AM. I am just rebuilding it becuase the engine is out for rebuild. I purchased a set of Alto 9 plate ( not the Kolene steel set) clutch HD directs , the clearance is about .040 . Would you reinstall the release springs in this pack and if so would you modify the colapsed height of the spring brackets. They are 1.000 when new. However the stack up of teh direct pack is about 1.075 which only leaves .075 for wear and compression of the pack when they are applied .Also you mentioned the Trans GO spring kits , Is that the piston return spring , Thanks Paul Poirier
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #39 (permalink)  
Old 03-17-2004, 08:13 PM
Crosley's Avatar
Hotrodders.com Moderator
 
Last wiki edit: T-350 rebuild tech
Last journal entry: Bar under the dash
Last photo:
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: ... USA
Posts: 8,045
Wiki Edits: 1659

Thanks: 311
Thanked 91 Times in 88 Posts
Re: 3/4 release springs

TRansGo # 7-CS is the hp spring kit for the aluminum drum. If you are not really going to rev the engine over 5500 rpm they are not needed.

I would still cut the height of the release spring brackets if you use them. I use them in OE applications.





Quote:
Originally posted by paul poirier
HI Tony .Just trying to get it straight in my head. I have 1997 4L60E from a Trans AM. I am just rebuilding it becuase the engine is out for rebuild. I purchased a set of Alto 9 plate ( not the Kolene steel set) clutch HD directs , the clearance is about .040 . Would you reinstall the release springs in this pack and if so would you modify the colapsed height of the spring brackets. They are 1.000 when new. However the stack up of teh direct pack is about 1.075 which only leaves .075 for wear and compression of the pack when they are applied .Also you mentioned the Trans GO spring kits , Is that the piston return spring , Thanks Paul Poirier
__________________
Some people are like Slinkies... Not really good for anything, but they still bring a smile to your face when you push them down a flight of stairs.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #40 (permalink)  
Old 03-22-2004, 12:22 PM
Member
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Calgary, Alberta
Posts: 39
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Cool 4L60 buildup - update

All,

After replacing the toasted front sprag and cut seal, I re-assembled the transmission being real careful to check clearances, set the total end play to 0.005".

The front drum is a real pain to assemble, and check. I think that I'll make a air pressure test plate to allow me to test these trannies it I build any more.

I hauled the tranny back down to the same tranny shop for another go at the dyno. I had to wait about 2 hours so i decided to chase parts but didn't get back in time to watch the test .

The dyno dude said everthing was good, I guess I'll find out after its in. The tranny was warm when i picked it up so he did put load on.

M.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #41 (permalink)  
Old 03-22-2004, 06:04 PM
airworld2's Avatar
Member
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: houston texas
Posts: 583
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
700

just a after thought ...... they sell lip seal protector for this drum
about 70 bucks as for that shell with bearing to replace 4 leg plastic washer whats the point that washer never fail's but the 4 leg brass washer sure will with the update shell on 4l65-e kit is the fix here
the beast is also nice thick and heavy but a good weld can hold the shell as well and doesn't cost that much
__________________
airworld2
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #42 (permalink)  
Old 06-02-2004, 05:33 PM
Member
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Calgary, Alberta
Posts: 39
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Re: 4L60 buildup - update

Update: June/04

After getting the tranny installed and the rest of the vehicle re-assembled the tranny works ok except I have no engine braking on decel. My guess is that one of the @!#$ seals for the over-run clutch got cut on assembly.

There has got to be a secret to installing the front pump without cutting these seals!

Its good enough for now - next winter I'll open it up AGAIN !@#$!


Quote:
Originally posted by ca434sbc
All,

After replacing the toasted front sprag and cut seal, I re-assembled the transmission being real careful to check clearances, set the total end play to 0.005".

The front drum is a real pain to assemble, and check. I think that I'll make a air pressure test plate to allow me to test these trannies it I build any more.

I hauled the tranny back down to the same tranny shop for another go at the dyno. I had to wait about 2 hours so i decided to chase parts but didn't get back in time to watch the test .

The dyno dude said everthing was good, I guess I'll find out after its in. The tranny was warm when i picked it up so he did put load on.

M.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #43 (permalink)  
Old 07-27-2004, 10:27 PM
Member
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Calgary, Alberta
Posts: 39
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Re: Re: 4L60 buildup - update

UPDATE:
Last weekend I spent some time on a Mustang chassis dyno. 360+ ft/lbs a the rear wheels not a peep out of the tranny. Guess this is close to 400+ ft/lbs at the flywheel.


Quote:
Originally posted by ca434sbc
Update: June/04

After getting the tranny installed and the rest of the vehicle re-assembled the tranny works ok except I have no engine braking on decel. My guess is that one of the @!#$ seals for the over-run clutch got cut on assembly.

There has got to be a secret to installing the front pump without cutting these seals!

Its good enough for now - next winter I'll open it up AGAIN !@#$!
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

Recent Transmission - Rearend posts with photos

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now

In order to be able to post messages on the Hot Rod Forum : Hotrodders Bulletin Board forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name (usually not your first and last name), your email address and other required details in the form below.
User Name:
If you do not want to register, fill this field only and the name will be used as user name for your post.
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.
Password:
Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.
Email Address:

Log-in

Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On



All times are GMT -6. The time now is 05:39 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0 PL2
Copyright Hotrodders.com 1999 - 2012. All Rights Reserved.