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Old 12-12-2003, 07:50 PM
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1993 700R4 Transmission Upgrades??

I did alot of searching on the site and seen alot of replys from very experienced transmission experts, so I thought I would ask a couple questions about a build Im doing. Im curious aboput valve body modifications. I heard that some will block the line bias valve to improve 2-3shift above 1/2 throttle, is this a good practice?? What else could be recommended for valve body mods?? My build includes the following...


Raybestos wider 2-4 band
3/4, overrunning, and forward steel pistons in input drum
.570 BV and larger reverse/low valve
Soonax larger 2 and 4 servo
3/4 clutch release springs deleted and #44 spacerplate enlarged
29 element BW sprag
alto racing clutches, 9 stack in 3/4 pack
drainback holes in pump enlarged to 5/16"
stiffer 1-2 accumulator spring
flipped 1-2 and 3-4 accumulator piston and spring
torque converter apply check ball(input shaft) removed
pressure regulator valve 2nd land grinded 2 flat spots
stiffer pump slide spring
welded 3/4 bleed hole in input drum
cryrogenically treated all hard parts

This out of a 1991 Syclone with AWD, these trannies really take a beating because of no wheel slip, so advice on the build would be great, constructive critisim only please. Thanks

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Old 12-13-2003, 03:39 PM
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Re: 1993 700R4 Transmission Upgrades??

I'll address this by item, mostly in order

With the wider band the drum MUST be flat. A straight edge across it will show how flat it is. This drum often cups.

Steel pistons remove the cracked aluminum piston problem. With these molded pistons use the TRansGo # 7-CS spring kit per thier instructions.

The Sonnax boost valves work well.

Alto 9 pack frictions work well. Set clearance at .040 or less. The one piece "60E" tranny 3/4 pressure plate can be machined down about .040 to gain claerance in the drum if needed. I only machine down the friction area, so the thickness at the edge remains the same strength

The forward sprag, use one with dual guide rings. i've seen too many of the single ring sprag with problems, wear or flipped. Polish the inner race with 400 grit wet paper(solvent) and use 320 grit on the outter race surface.

Drain back holes in the 1993 pump are fine, BUT drill the matching hole in the stator support with your 5/16 bit.

Stiffer spring in the 1-2 accumilator is fine, no need to flip the piston on it. I've seen some companys that plug off this acc.... bad news.

Plug the feed hole of the 3-4 acc with a 1/4" inch check ball. Flip the piston and spring if you like.

I leave the converter check ball IN the input shaft. That is just the way i do it. Clamp the input shaft with drum in a vise(soft jaws) and check for loose splines in the drum from twist. IF the drum twists, replace it!

Stiffer pump slide springs or new OEM units are fine for higher RPM use.

I use JB weld KWIK epoxy on the bleed hole on the INSIDE of the aluminum drum under the 3/4 piston to plug this hole.

We have seen amazing things with cryogenic treated parts.

Block the line bias valve in place.

I would recomend the "Beast " drive shell.






Quote:
Originally posted by syclone477
I did alot of searching on the site and seen alot of replys from very experienced transmission experts, so I thought I would ask a couple questions about a build Im doing. Im curious aboput valve body modifications. I heard that some will block the line bias valve to improve 2-3shift above 1/2 throttle, is this a good practice?? What else could be recommended for valve body mods?? My build includes the following...


Raybestos wider 2-4 band
3/4, overrunning, and forward steel pistons in input drum
.570 BV and larger reverse/low valve
Soonax larger 2 and 4 servo
3/4 clutch release springs deleted and #44 spacerplate enlarged
29 element BW sprag
alto racing clutches, 9 stack in 3/4 pack
drainback holes in pump enlarged to 5/16"
stiffer 1-2 accumulator spring
flipped 1-2 and 3-4 accumulator piston and spring
torque converter apply check ball(input shaft) removed
pressure regulator valve 2nd land grinded 2 flat spots
stiffer pump slide spring
welded 3/4 bleed hole in input drum
cryrogenically treated all hard parts

This out of a 1991 Syclone with AWD, these trannies really take a beating because of no wheel slip, so advice on the build would be great, constructive critisim only please. Thanks
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Old 12-13-2003, 10:37 PM
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I appreciate you taking the time to go through the list. One thing I was concerned about was the custom .570" boost valve. Thats gonna bring line pressure up considerably. I wanted to go with the Torque Drive Package which came with a hardened input shaft and renforced drum(where shaft splines to drum) and reaction shell. The problem is you have to use their custom machined overrunning piston, which is aluminum. Should I buy that package and just use the steel 3/4 and forward piston, then use their overrun aluminum piston??? OR Should I check input shaft/drum and if all is tight send it to be cryro'd then use all 3 steel pistons with bonded seals?? How common are cracked aluminum pistons in the input drum with larger BV's?? To plug the 3/4 acc feed with the check ball I guess that totally eliminates the accumulator, correct.
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Old 12-14-2003, 09:12 AM
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Cool

Torque drive does some neat stuff with the 700 parts.

The problem I have seen with their modified drive shell is the area where the factory balances the shell.

On Torque drive's main page they show a photo of the modified shell. There are 2 little round holes punched in the shell for balancing.

This is where the shell will now split apart. I have seen this and I have photos of one that had pulled apart . It takes some traction and torque to pull this shell apart like this.

this link should show the photo;

http://www.highperformancecars.com/crosley/hdshell2.jpg


Do NOT take this post as a slam to Torque Drive products. I am only pointing out things I have seen with my own eyes.
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Old 12-27-2003, 12:18 AM
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Blocking your bias and using a .570 bv is going to give you some very hi pressures. What's this trans being used for? You may be reaching a level of overkill. Most info posted here is good, should make a strong unit. One thing that is often over looked and very important is your bushings. They act as lube seals as well as control proper parts alignment. Replace them. Let me know how it turns out. Thanks.

P.S. In 1993 GM went to the 4L60-E across it's entire line,, and to the best of my knowledge discontinued the 700-R4 aka 4L60. Similar, but not the same.
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Old 12-27-2003, 08:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by krp

P.S. In 1993 GM went to the 4L60-E across it's entire line,, and to the best of my knowledge discontinued the 700-R4 aka 4L60. Similar, but not the same.
========== not in the USA. Trucks went to the 4L60E.

Vettes and F bodies used the 700 still. 1993 was the cross over year for the chnage here. There was a 700 with a 5 pin round case connector.

With the .570 boost valve I see 280- 300 psi on the tranny dyno. With the right parts the pump duarbility in not an isssue
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Old 12-27-2003, 08:45 AM
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Tranny is off a 1991 GMC Syclone. It has a GM Reman tranny in it from a 1993. Its definitly a 4l60 non electronic. I will definitly be replacing all bushings, I know its not something that is always done but cheap insurance for me to make sure everythings aligned perfect. Thanks Fern
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Old 12-27-2003, 09:00 AM
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Cool

As I sit here a brain fart clears away.

the turbo'd Syclone trannys used a stiffer line bias valve spring.

You may wish to add the large boost valve and leave the line bias assembly as it is.


Quote:
Originally posted by syclone477
Tranny is off a 1991 GMC Syclone. It has a GM Reman tranny in it from a 1993. Its definitly a 4l60 non electronic. I will definitly be replacing all bushings, I know its not something that is always done but cheap insurance for me to make sure everythings aligned perfect. Thanks Fern
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Old 12-27-2003, 11:46 AM
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========== not in the USA. Trucks went to the 4L60E.

My mistake, of course that is correct. I thought we were talking trucks, I wasn't very clear.
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Old 12-27-2003, 01:00 PM
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Thanks guys, have a good new years. Fern
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Old 12-27-2003, 10:37 PM
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1993 700R4

Hi Syclone. Why were the 3/4 release springs left out. I had a hole paragraph typed then lost it . No time left tonight.
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Old 12-31-2003, 12:42 PM
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Paul, its an update in the ASTG manual. Has to do with the release spings causing bindup in the 3/4 clucth if I remember right.
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Old 01-01-2004, 01:07 PM
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3/4 re;ease springs on 700R4

The purpose of the springs was to release the 3/4 clutch during a 4/2 maneuver , eliminating them causes a slow release which can wear the 3/4 clutches . This is from a GM point of view. I have never left them out and our local trans parts supplier now recommends to leave them in. Also the steel molded pistons were designed to be cheaper not stronger (possible extra bonus).Less labour intensive .
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Old 01-01-2004, 02:34 PM
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Paul, why the hell would they publish something like that in the ASTG manual, was this found out afterwards I guess?? And those steel pistons with bonded seal came out to like $50CND a piece and thats with our shop discount. So you would suggest to keep the 3/4 release spings installed?? Theres a good possibility they were already discarded in a previous build, would I just order the 7-8 spings(forget how many there are now) and thats all that should be needed right?? Thanks

By the Way HAPPY NEW YEARS GUYS!!
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Old 01-01-2004, 07:18 PM
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700R4 Steel pistons.

I'll try Monday and get the cost of a 4T40/45E forward piston on Monday.since we purchase 4,000 a day here in Windsor. The cost reflex the machined aluminum piston and both lip seals verses a stamped steel piston with molded seals. Plus labour to install the lip seals. The last 700R4 I had with the 3/4 springs removed I ordered them from the Local Pontiac Buick Dealer. $18 I think it was. What will be the purpose of this vehicle /to drag race or street use only.
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