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Old 05-11-2005, 08:58 PM
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1st paint job woes

Help,
I did my first paint job with basecoat/clearcoat using Sherwin-Williams Ultra 7000 base & clear. I used a home made side draft booth, gravity hvlp gun with 1.4 tip. My test fans patterns were correct. I got the base laid down pretty good but the clear became very orange peeled and had streaks (stripes) that were rough and did not have any gloss. If you go to their website and look in the trouble shooting guide and look at the picture of orange peel that is the finish I got (all over). Basically the finish was not smooth. I painted Monday, tonight I wet sanded with 1200 & buffed with a medium compound and foam pad. I was very conservative with my sanding and the paint was still not smooth or had much of any gloss after buffing. I went back and did a test area by wet sanding until I got out 95% of the imperfections out with 1200 and had a smooth dull finish. I sanded thru the clear in an area about the size of dollar bill, the area I sanded thru was one of the areas that had the dull rough strip. I also "burned the paint" with the edge of the buffer in another spot, I learned to never work in low light. On the up side the area that i did not sand thru was smooth level & glossy after buffing.

Now I need to fix the paint job and repair the rookie mistakes. Should I scuff the paint with 600 wet and spray out a mist coat and 2 more coats of clear? What about the texture in the finish? The 600 should knock down the rough spots & texture. There is a dull area surrounding the area I sanded thru, will a cover spraying with clear restore the finish?

Any tips or suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks,
Rusty
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Old 05-11-2005, 09:22 PM
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Sorry to hear you are having problems, no worries though it happens to everyone at some time or another.With a 1.4 tip u should be able to spray anything so I don't see that as an issue.
If your base laid down fine..smooth.. and your clear was all oranged up, sounds like you did not have it reduced enough to atomize correctly. Not all clears call for reducer, but that does not mean you cant reduce them to make them spray like you want. Then again it could have been your gun settings. Too much air not enough product can spell trouble as well, or vice versa.

As far as fixing what you have here is what I would do if it were me. Sand the area you have sanded through with 400 grit, sand the rest of the car with 500 or 600 if you have it instead. Lightly base the were needed including where you burned through and re clear the whole thing.

The reason I tell you to do this is if the clear was that thin and u could not sand out the orange peel or if the surface is that rough and takes allot of sanding ( removing most of your clear) then u need to fix the whole gig. Trying to sand and buff that is too much work, considering you will more than likely hit base again on what you have said.

I don't recommend using 1200 for color sanding either, it is too rough of a grit. If you are trying to knock off the worst first with it, that is fine, but not to buff back for shine and finish. Go with 2000 grit, no less than 1500# but I like 2000 the best. Use 3M products..they work well.

You need to make sure the clear is spraying well b4 shooting the car again too. Find something... anything, a garbage can if that is all you have, and practice spraying. You need to make sure you can lay down nice patterns that lightly overlap and have a gloss to them. I'm not a fan of putting clear on peppery and then coming back with my other coats heavier. I always like to put it on the first time like I want it to look. That is just how I do it. Allot of guys do it the first way, it is whatever makes you comfy. i hope this helps a little

BK
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Old 05-11-2005, 10:45 PM
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The first coat of clear should not be a "mist" coat. That sets you up for orange peel.

Are you using the correct hardener for the temperatures?
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Old 05-11-2005, 11:19 PM
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your streaking sounds like your not flowing correctly get something old hood deck lid and practice practice practice on the crap build up the confidence
lots & lots of fluorescent lights wipe a thin cost of Vaseline on them for easy clean up later (bulbs) @ least 2 rows about waist and head level on all 4 walls and ceiling .fluorescents are extremely critical it will look diferent in sunlight you also have to compensate for temp & humidity its a art and a science

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Old 05-12-2005, 03:43 AM
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Guys,
Thanks for the help. I am using and mixing the products per mfg data sheet 4 parts clear, 1 part reducer, 1 part hardener for the temperature we have here in Atlanta. I painted the back of the air dam and under hatch 2 weekends ago and it came out slick smooth and full of gloss. No sanding or buffing needed.

If I understand what I need to do: 1) I will sand the car with 600 to get the sub-straight back to neutral a smooth (flat) finish to work with. 2) Then spray out base on any areas I sand thru to, basically spot touch up, not repainting the whole panel. 3) Once I get the base color repaired I move to clear coat. I skip the mist coat and go straight to 2 wet coats.

Is this the process and should I clean the body with the wax/grease cleaner or should I wash with water and tack wipe body before spraying? I have a video from the house of color and the instructor says not to chemically wash the sanded clear?

Thanks
Rusty
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Old 05-12-2005, 09:29 AM
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Wash it with water and 00 car wash from Mirror Glaze, it is paint safe and put a little in your water when you sand the clear it will make it glide easier. Let your paper set in the water for a while b4 you use it too.

Be cautious of tack rags, while they do have a purpose they can also cause fish eyes if you press to hard and some of the residue is left on the car.

BK
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Old 05-12-2005, 11:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BondoKing

Be cautious of tack rags, while they do have a purpose they can also cause fish eyes if you press to hard and some of the residue is left on the car.

BK
Man you can say that again, they have caused problems for me.

Vince
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Old 05-13-2005, 10:13 AM
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Flash times

Make sure you allow enough time for the clear to flash. Since you are going to put on 2 wet coats..... make for sure!!!!!! That it has flashed more than enough or you could end up with solvent pops like i just had yesterday. Trust me it will much better to wait an hour extra than to have to sand the whole car AGAIN and clear once more. Best of luck and keep us posted

Matthew
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Old 05-21-2005, 07:01 AM
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Update on my progress. First, many thanks for the advice and information. Here is what I did, I wet sanded the entire car with 600 to knock off the worst of the heavy orange peel. Then I re-coated with 2 coats clear with a wet on wet process per the Sherwin-Williams tech. I also increased my painting speed to keep the from losing the "wet" edge. I looked at my finished product and again was disappointed with rough orange peel, but this time only on the flat surfaces. Another call to the tech line and was told it was my gun control on the passes on the flat panels (roof, hood trunk) was the problem...I wasn't keeping the fan perpendicular to the surface causing heavy areas. He said it is not uncommon for a first timer and I would get better with practice. The good news is it can be repaired but is going to take some time & effort. He recommended I wet sand the rough areas with 1200 and work down to 1500 on the final cut. Then machine buff with 3M Perfect-It III compound & foam pad. I did a test area to see what I would get and was pleasantly surprised that the bumps came out, got the surface smooth, the shine and gloss came out after a quick buff. Now to do the whole car and take a picture.

The more I use and apply the products the more comfortable I am with the application. Doing my first paint job on a car that I have been working on since 1997 probably was too steep a learning curve for my expectations.

Thanks again & I will post a picture when I finish.

Rusty
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Old 05-22-2005, 07:07 AM
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sounds like

your not putting it on "WET" enough must newbies are afraid to let it flow (afraid of runs) you need to open up the fluid knob and put it on wet and PRACTICE good luck mike
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Old 05-22-2005, 02:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BondoKing
Wash it with water and 00 car wash from Mirror Glaze, it is paint safe and put a little in your water when you sand the clear it will make it glide easier. Let your paper set in the water for a while b4 you use it too.

Be cautious of tack rags, while they do have a purpose they can also cause fish eyes if you press to hard and some of the residue is left on the car.

BK
I've found if you open the tack rag up, unfold it completely, then hang it to breathe for about an hour before use the chance of it smudging is much less. Some are tackier than others. Bob
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