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  #1 (permalink)  
Old 07-02-2007, 01:21 PM
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2-4 tunnal ram still tryin

well i took info that you all had told me . ive begain a procees of elimenation to hopefully find the secret to unlock my motors potential. is degreeing the cam on sbc all that critical? Cam Dynamics (now owned by Crane) 284H-12 "energizer" cam 284-284 228-228@.050" .480-.480" 112LSA. is the cam i am runnin.also the heads were milled is this a good thing? i had a degree wheel and was gonna do that but then i was talkin to alocal race shop terry murphyand he kinda laughed at that idea. so i never really got around to do it and i order some headers also

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Old 07-02-2007, 02:05 PM
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Your problem is not in your long block. It should run great without degreeing the cam. Compression shouldn't be a factor, neither should rocker ratios, etc. Your problem is 100% in your intake system. Your setup is GREAT for wide-open-throttle drag racing launches. However, nothing you are running was ever intended for stop-and-go low end street driving.

The large plenum in your tunnel ram was specifically designed to take the carburetor plenum and venturis out of the runner length tuning equation. Normally aspirated intake systems depend on organ pipe pressure waves to tune a moderate "supercharge" boost at a given RPM. The longer the runner, the lower the RPM when the boost occurs. If the runners are clean and the same length, the engine will achieve the maximum power boost at the design RPM. The tunnel plenum is great for that at the expense of really bad fuel mixture velocity at low RPMs, bad fuel distribution and really sluggish throttle response. I have a lot of knowledge on tunnel manifolds since I designed and built one for my hemi when I was in college studying for my Mechanical Engineering degree. This was in 1968 or 69 so I think it predated the marketing of the commercial tunnels by a few years. Anyway, mine acted just like yours is acting, physics doesn't change!

Here I am in my far distant youth building my tunnel ram.


The other big problem you have is with the carburetors. A mildly hot 350 should have 650 or 700cfm of carburation, max for best all-round performance. The combination of carbs is too big and the double pumper feature is also bad. Vacuum secondary carbs are designed to run 99.99% of the time as 2-bbl carbs with resultant high venturi velocity and great gasoline mixture and throttle response time. Just changing our carbs to 350-500cfm vacuum secondary 4bbl units will be a huge improvement in low end performance. Double pumpers were again intended for WOT drag racing. Dedicated dragsters don't need all the jewelery associated with vacuum secondaries so carb makers produced the cheaper DPs for that niche market. On the street, they don't work very well. When you open the throttle suddenly at low speed, WAY too much venturi is exposed, air velocity drops to near zero and gasoline is no longer siphoned into the stream. That, along with the fuel drop out in the big manifold plenum is the cause of the monster bog you are experiencing.

If you are determined to keep all the widgets you now have, the only fix is to mask the symptoms of the problem with huge jets, big accelerator pumps, and really crappy gas mileage. Now I am the last person to advise someone to get rid of "the look" since I run a Holley 3-bbl 950cfm carb on my 354 hemi. WAY too much carb although Holley wisely made the race-only carbs w/ vacuum secondaries. I made it more streetable by machining some aluminum inserts for the primary bores shrinking them down to the equivalent of a 600cfm carb. I also installed a strong secondary spring, delaying secondary opening so it is very streetable, yet looks awesome.

You can see my custom made primary bore inserts here.


My suggestions for fixing your problem are;

1) replace the big DP carbs with smaller vacuum secondary units.

2) Use some plastic steel to make some inserts for the tunnel-ram plenum reducing the volume to that of a typical 4-bbl manifold.

These two changes will fix your problem and make your car s sweet street/strip runner, I guarantee.

Incidentally, you are new to the board so here is a tip; instead of starting a new thread on an old topic, continue discussion on the first thread. Otherwise the reader will have to do a search to find out what you are talking about.

Last edited by willys36@aol.com; 07-03-2007 at 04:08 PM.
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Old 07-02-2007, 03:05 PM
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Now since this thread has been brought up and the recommended information supplied where are all you guys that claimed tunnell rams were so great and wonderful and had GOBS of low end torque? where`s Mr. Xntrik and the rest of his "followers" saying how great they are? since you guys were such Xperts (pun intended) on tunnell rams where are you now? why aren`t you telling this guy where the problem is and why his combo doesn`t seem to be working? Instead we have Willys36, a honored and respected member of this board giving the man his answers and Willys doesn`t post very often and you guys that followed X`s "Xpertise" are always posting and I don`t see you around, I`m disappointed and disillusioned. This thread is not to start trouble, it`s just simply put, stating the truth.
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Old 07-03-2007, 02:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DoubleVision
Now since this thread has been brought up and the recommended information supplied where are all you guys that claimed tunnell rams were so great and wonderful and had GOBS of low end torque? where`s Mr. Xntrik and the rest of his "followers" saying how great they are? since you guys were such Xperts (pun intended) on tunnell rams where are you now? why aren`t you telling this guy where the problem is and why his combo doesn`t seem to be working? Instead we have Willys36, a honored and respected member of this board giving the man his answers and Willys doesn`t post very often and you guys that followed X`s "Xpertise" are always posting and I don`t see you around, I`m disappointed and disillusioned. This thread is not to start trouble, it`s just simply put, stating the truth.
Between you and Willys, there doesn't seem to be a lot more to be said.




tom
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Old 07-03-2007, 04:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DoubleVision
Now since this thread has been brought up and the recommended information supplied where are all you guys that claimed tunnell rams were so great and wonderful and had GOBS of low end torque? where`s Mr. Xntrik and the rest of his "followers" saying how great they are? since you guys were such Xperts (pun intended) on tunnell rams where are you now? why aren`t you telling this guy where the problem is and why his combo doesn`t seem to be working? Instead we have Willys36, a honored and respected member of this board giving the man his answers and Willys doesn`t post very often and you guys that followed X`s "Xpertise" are always posting and I don`t see you around, I`m disappointed and disillusioned. This thread is not to start trouble, it`s just simply put, stating the truth.
I think at least one of the "notables" packed up their magazines and went home to Mama.

Just to add a bit. Your first post indicated the car sat 10 years. The carbs at least need to be rebuilt and the PV's installed to even BEGIN to help out your situation in order to troubleshoot your current combination. Which in the end likely will follow Willy's train of thought.

In my opinion it's not worth adding anymore to the excellent suggestions so far about your situation until you bring things up to snuff with what you have, unless you want to spend a bunch of money replacing parts. If it were me (as another parts replacing option, I'd install a Performer intake and a 570 Holley Avenger, tweak the jetting, and be done with it. If I remember correctly you had 192 heads? Not exactly tunnel ram material.

Just my thoughts.
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Old 07-03-2007, 10:00 PM
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I always head the other way Rick. I love the challenge of taking something that shouldn't work and making it do so. But then, working in the shop is my shrink so take that for what it is worth!
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Old 07-03-2007, 11:18 PM
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Not to offend gm at all I try to fit a response to what I perceive the posters abilities are as well as conserve cash and time. Sometimes convention has it's benefits and it's nice to just get a project complete, on the road and enjoy it for a spell.

I agree, a challenge is always a treat.
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Old 07-03-2007, 11:59 PM
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im am a green horn when it comes to matching engine components. i have a general knowledge of cars. i have most experiance in maken them shine, i painted my first truck at 14, 71 chevy p/u. ive seen alot of hotrods and have painted several they all had perfect body and paint but never was very cool under the hood. just your basic sbc with performer and 650 eldebrock. this in my oppenions seem most common in most street rods simple and efficient i suppose.there was a few that had total package or as some say had the show and the go.i want something with charactor i like ram cause it just looks nasty i remember the car in its prime still had tunnal ram but with single carb. my uncle wipped up on some unexpecting folks. he had a picture of what he wanted out of this car and i want to try and make it real. he had given up on it. he gave it too me 4 yrs ago its not on priority list but i try to go down and do something to it every knight after work. i have a wife and two boys. they take up most and sometimes all of my free time. hotrods are a very expensive hobby so i usually have to save if i need anything.takes time right?
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Old 07-04-2007, 06:30 PM
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You have the perfect outlook and goal for what you are doing. I started out buying my '36 Willys coupe in '66 with a dream of making it a daily driver '60s gasser. It took 40 years and MANY mistakes to finally get there but I never lost that vision. I went to college, started a career, built a home and reared 3 kids, all the time doing little tasks in rare free minutes on my dream. I can tell you from experience it is worth the trip. Keep plugging away, when you hit an obstacle, study up on the subject, learn a new skill, get a new Harbor Freight tool and overcome the hurdle. In time you will have the car of your dreams and a bunch of skills that will serve you for life.
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Old 07-05-2007, 07:42 AM
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From the top

carbs: holley 450cfm mec.secondary

intake: weind tunnal ram #1980

cam: cam dynamics 284-284 228-228@.050".480-.480" 112lsa

heads: stock gm head 194s they have been milled

block: 350 sbc .030 keith black flat top pistins

ignition: mallory

exaust : stock manifolds been savin for headers

trans: turbo 350 been threw freshin up 3000 stall

rear end: 373 10 bolt from late model S10

this to the best of my knowledge is what im runnin
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Old 07-05-2007, 10:42 AM
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Pretty good street/strip combo. Should get you there and back in style once you figure out the bottom end performance of your intake system.
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Old 07-05-2007, 05:13 PM
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I have a tunnel ramed 383 with no bogs, no hesitation and gets out of the hole without any fancy footwork. It's an older Eddelbrock Street Ram....So why does mine work? lots of compression and tiny primaries (11.6:1, 2x500CFM Edelbrock carbs). I have more cam than you which is still on the mild side. You can make it work....start with the carbs. PM me if you want dirtier details.
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Old 07-05-2007, 06:22 PM
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I think that, for the street, vacuum secondary carbs would make it easier to tune out a bog.
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Old 07-18-2007, 11:07 PM
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my heads are 62-67 off 327 1.94 intake and 1.60 exaust 60cc chambers milled .050 cr 11.5:1
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Old 07-19-2007, 09:46 AM
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Degreeing a cam is always a good idea. I degree in all my cams and have seen some that are way out. I had one that was 6 degrees retarded!

How much timing are you running? I would run about 38 total and have it come in early.

You might want to increase the squirter size.

If you don't have it already, give your carbs power valve protection. I'm sure it backfired once or twice already.
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