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-   -   2 row vs 3 row Radiator efficiently? (http://www.hotrodders.com/forum/2-row-vs-3-row-radiator-efficiently-218668.html)

ForceFed86 04-26-2012 05:55 PM

2 row vs 3 row Radiator efficiently?
 
Recently bought a 2 row 28x15x2 cheapo alum radiator. Anyone have direct experience with replacing a 2-row radiator of the exact same size with a 3-row?

I'm using 2 12" electric fans. This has cooled the car fine up until I use the AC in stop and go traffic on hot days. Without the AC on the car will stay around 190-210* (180 thermo). Even on 100*+ days I've seen a highest reading of 210 or so. On the highway I can run the AC on hot days without any overheating issues.

Due to engine packaging and turbo plumbing, I have no room for a schroud. The radiator is covered decently by 2 12" fans. I know a schroud is best, but I just don't have the room.

Do you think switching to a 3 row core radiator will make that much of a difference? The 3 core units I'm looking at are the same 2" thickness as my current 2 core. I just can't see them cooling that much better?

I'm also looking into a more powerful fan setup. As these are the supplied cheap fans.

-Thanks!

http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b1...t/IMG_4753.jpg

Frisco 04-27-2012 08:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ForceFed86
Recently bought a 2 row 28x15x2 cheapo alum radiator. Anyone have direct experience with replacing a 2-row radiator of the exact same size with a 3-row?

I'm using 2 12" electric fans. This has cooled the car fine up until I use the AC in stop and go traffic on hot days. Without the AC on the car will stay around 190-210* (180 thermo). Even on 100*+ days I've seen a highest reading of 210 or so. On the highway I can run the AC on hot days without any overheating issues.

Due to engine packaging and turbo plumbing, I have no room for a schroud. The radiator is covered decently by 2 12" fans. I know a schroud is best, but I just don't have the room.

Do you think switching to a 3 row core radiator will make that much of a difference? The 3 core units I'm looking at are the same 2" thickness as my current 2 core. I just can't see them cooling that much better?

I'm also looking into a more powerful fan setup. As these are the supplied cheap fans.

-Thanks!

The usual advantage of using a three row vs a two row core is you get additional capacity for coolant. If the tubes in the two row are large, the capacity gain going to a three row may not be significant. However, the area exposed to cooling air will be increased so the cooling will be better with the three row. There is another area to consider that rarely gets mentioned. This is the number of fins per inch. The more fins the greater the cooling area and the more efficient the radiator becomes.

If you have room to run the electric fans shown, then you have room for a shroud.

How are your fans controlled? Do you have them turn on with a thermostatically controlled switch? If you do, change that so they run constant whenever the ignition is on. You might also consider running a high volume larger single puller fan.

ForceFed86 04-27-2012 12:31 PM

Thanks for the reply. Although it may not look like it, the fans pictured are touching the radiator. There is no space between. The turbo is less than an inch from the fans currently. It already started to slightly melt the plastic on the rear of the fans. So unless I can find a "slimmer" fan I think I'm hosed there. The AC condenser and intercooler mount directly in front of the radiator so I have no wiggle room there either.

I can get a 3-row champion radiator for 170 shipped. (14-16 fins per inch) Suppose it won't break the bank to give it a try. My current radiaotr did not list the fins per inch for a comparison. I'll have to count them tonight. Thanks for pointing it out. :thumbup:

oldbogie 04-27-2012 04:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ForceFed86
Recently bought a 2 row 28x15x2 cheapo alum radiator. Anyone have direct experience with replacing a 2-row radiator of the exact same size with a 3-row?

I'm using 2 12" electric fans. This has cooled the car fine up until I use the AC in stop and go traffic on hot days. Without the AC on the car will stay around 190-210* (180 thermo). Even on 100*+ days I've seen a highest reading of 210 or so. On the highway I can run the AC on hot days without any overheating issues.

Due to engine packaging and turbo plumbing, I have no room for a schroud. The radiator is covered decently by 2 12" fans. I know a schroud is best, but I just don't have the room.

Do you think switching to a 3 row core radiator will make that much of a difference? The 3 core units I'm looking at are the same 2" thickness as my current 2 core. I just can't see them cooling that much better?

I'm also looking into a more powerful fan setup. As these are the supplied cheap fans.

-Thanks!

We have back to back testing of a 31 wide by 19 inch high cross flow in copper brass of 3 rows and the same size and flow direction in aluminum 2 rows of 1 inch tubes. Everything else, fans, pump, operating cycle kept the same. With the same 180 degree thermostat they functioned identically.

I see you're really pressed for space, if you don't have an engine oil cooler, you should find that a large enough one will take about 10 maybe 15 degrees off the coolant temp. All you've got to do is find a place for it.

Without a shroud it's hard to get fans to pull over all the possible radiator core area. Another trick is to use cookie baking sheets to make a shallow shroud that fastens around the perimeter of the core and accepts the fans with either their shrouds modified either by cutting or bending for the depth of the cookie sheets. The internal angles are for crap but it actually works pretty well. Sometimes it does interfere with high speed cooling, the solution is some flapper doors outside the fan radius in the cookie sheet these will be sucked shut when the fans run so a vacuum forms across the entire core to pull air through it at idle and stop and go traffic but at cruise and higher speeds when the fans aren't required the ram air will blow the flapper doors open to provide more flow area with less restriction. This type shroud can be configured so it adds no more depth than your existing fans which will get around your space problem. Plus, if you use your wife's old baking sheets you'll love the smell of chocolate chips as your moving down the highway---GOT MILK?

Bogie

2old2fast 04-27-2012 07:00 PM

Bogie's got it right , without a shroud your fans are very inefficent. The cookie sheet thing w/ the fans mounted internally would work well , trim the shroud's as much as you can , then like he said , put in high speed flaps if needed...
dave

ForceFed86 04-27-2012 10:41 PM

Great ideas, I'll try the oil cooler first. I Honestly don't have room for even a cookie sheet at the moment. I may be able to get creative and trim the fans down a bit and re-arrange some piping. Or squeeze a 16inch fan offset to one side with the shroud. I'll follow up with the results.

thanks!

ForceFed86 10-02-2012 12:26 PM

Just to update this. Installed a decent oil cooler and a spal 16" fan on one side. The single 12" fan is good for most of the year here. Once temps get into the 90+ range I have a switch for the spal 16". Cools fin now, even in 110* heat.

oldbogie 10-02-2012 01:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ForceFed86 (Post 1595656)
Just to update this. Installed a decent oil cooler and a spal 16" fan on one side. The single 12" fan is good for most of the year here. Once temps get into the 90+ range I have a switch for the spal 16". Cools fin now, even in 110* heat.

Good to here this works, thanks for the update.

Bogie

PatM 10-02-2012 01:25 PM

So, ForceFed, are you now using a combination of one 12 inch and one 16 inch fan? Did you ever add a shroud, or did the larger fan (plus oil cooler) do the trick alone?
Thanks for the update.

PatM


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