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Old 07-19-2013, 11:58 AM
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2 wiped lobes, 3 bashed in lifters

Part of a camshaft, head swap I am doing.
I was pulling out the original camshaft out of my 105k 69 Pont 350 2 barrel, and I found 3 smashed lifters. Should I be concerned about a still looming problem, or this just stuff happens?
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Old 07-19-2013, 01:37 PM
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clean , replace ,rebuild!!
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Old 07-20-2013, 07:09 AM
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what killer said, freshen engine and use a roller cam
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Old 07-20-2013, 08:07 AM
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Double check everything.

After a roomate in college wiped out 2 cam shafts I always double check everything, turn the cam shaft over by hand as I install each lifter. On his engine we added a transmission bronze thrust washer to get the cam propperly spaced in the block. and check the thrust movement on the cam. On the SBC in my T bucket project i had to machine the thrust button since I was using an aluminum timing chain cover.
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Old 07-20-2013, 08:09 AM
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One of the pitfalls of using modern oils in an older engine, the new oils don't have the proper additives to protect a flat tappet against failure. If you choose to replace the cam with another flat tappet, there are oils available now and break-in procedures to follow to boost your chances at success. The best option, as vinnie stated, is a roller cam...

Russ
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Old 07-20-2013, 11:22 AM
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Who cleaned the lifter valley? I would pull the oil galley plugs out first use a rifle cleaning kit to remove the junk from the oil galley. Now you have a money pit on your hands. Why stop at just a new cam, rebuild the whole engine. Why stop at a 350 when a 400 cost the same money to rebuild?
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Old 07-21-2013, 06:48 AM
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The problem is a flattened cam or lifter fills the oil with metal which in turn eats up engine bearings. Rods will start to knock and oil pressure will drop.

Pull out the engine, take it apart, inspected it, clean it, replace the required parts. Since it has 100K miles I would just have it rebuilt.

Avoid flat tappet cams with fast ramps like voodoo and xtreme cams.

By the time you spend all this money and time doing a rebuild you could most likely do a late model swap. Complete, used Chevy 5.3's are dirt cheap. Just something to think about.
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Old 07-21-2013, 08:57 AM
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Older Pontiacs have a "sludge" problem when the oil wasn't changed regularly. It was compounded by the higher temps of emmissions engines. It isn't unusual to find a 40 year old engine with a wiped lobe.

Rollers are "nice", but quite expensive. Nothing wrong with flat-tappet cams today, or the oil. Add a can of Lucas Stabilizer or STP during "run-in" and everything is okay. When it comes to "run-in", when all else fails, follow instructions. That is, leave the inner valve springs out for initial run. Keep revs over 2,000 for 15-20 minutes. Once the wear pattern is established, it will be fine.

The Pontiac, particularly at lower performance levels, responds very well to XE cams. Similar reports with VooDoo. New valve springs are called for, appropriate for the new cam chosen. We've used both XE250H and XE256H in 350s with VERY happy customers. Anything larger would move it "up" the scale of performance builds.

Whether or not debris from a wiped out cam will "hurt" the engine s a crap-shoot. In an old engine, it's probably not a big deal, as the wear came gradually. A "fresh" engine that wiped a cam will have some "big chunks". It's always prudent to disassemble and clean.

Forget putting a late model V8 in it, it will destroy the value of the car. Building the original 350 is not a bad proposition, especially if the car is "complete". '69s had TH350 trans, so it's a good basis for a snappy "fun" car. If you want a "hot rod", yes, 400 or bigger.


Most engine families use a retainer plate to control camshaft end-play, unlike Chevy and a couple others (Olds, B/RB Dodge). While I understand the desire to hhelp, please understand, each engine family has it's own strengths and weaknesses. What "works" in a Chevy small block may or may not "work" in the Pontiac. In this case, it's "apples to donuts".

Best advice is to familiarize yourself with the Pontiac as an independent "entity". The old HO-Racing and Pete McCarthy books are good. In '04, Jim Hand's "How To Build Max-performance Pontiac V8s", published by SA Designs, was released. Good book.

FWIW


Jim

Last edited by Mr. P-Body; 07-21-2013 at 09:10 AM. Reason: spelling...
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Old 07-24-2013, 03:42 PM
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The damage pictured usually (not always ) is caused by excessive idle time such as taxi or police cars and older cars that the fast idle on the choke system is not working on cold start idle rpm to low since the oil at low rpm does not properly reach cam,when you replace cam be sure to add a can of zinc to protect cam ,,some oils have it already ,Quaker state high mileage ,and some other over priced racing oils ,,run engine to break in cam and be sure to change oil while it is still hot,while particles are suspended in oil not settled to bottom of pan

that's my 2 cents for what it is worth
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Old 07-24-2013, 04:14 PM
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B-O-P isn't known for a great valve train. Burned once twice shy. Make the move to a roller conversion and enjoy driving it.
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Old 07-24-2013, 08:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nuck Chorris View Post
Part of a camshaft, head swap I am doing.
I was pulling out the original camshaft out of my 105k 69 Pont 350 2 barrel, and I found 3 smashed lifters. Should I be concerned about a still looming problem, or this just stuff happens?
That wear has likely happened over a long period of time. If the oil was changed regularly the filter would have picked up most of the particles from the lifter and cam. You can get a good idea of the frequency of oil changes by how much sludge has built up over the years. If the engine was recently rebuilt and cleaned and if the cam and lifters were recently replaced, the wear could be from improper cam break in or the use of motor oil that doesn't contain the right additives for a flat tappet valve train.

Like Mr P-B said- nothing wrong w/flat tappet cams as long as you take care of them w/proper break in and additives. Reasonable valve spring pressures help, too.

I'd put the lil' 350 on a stand in the corner. Then I'd build a 455 or 400 for it for the fun aspect.

Pontiac info/sites
Pontiac engine info
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Old 07-25-2013, 01:03 PM
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thanks for all the replies. This is a low budget freshening of 105k motor. I don't want to ride my bike through the winter. I just pulled the cam all the way out. The bearings look ok, going to reuse them. I also want to check out condition of the main bearings too. Is it as simple as pulling off the cap and looking at the bearings and then torquing it back down?
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Old 07-25-2013, 04:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nuck Chorris View Post
thanks for all the replies. This is a low budget freshening of 105k motor. I don't want to ride my bike through the winter. I just pulled the cam all the way out. The bearings look ok, going to reuse them. I also want to check out condition of the main bearings too. Is it as simple as pulling off the cap and looking at the bearings and then torquing it back down?
Basically yes. I'd check the thrust bearing clearance (#4 cap/bearing, both w/caps off then again w/caps on. You want there to be full contact top and bottom, particularly on the back side- especially on a manual trans deal. It's been awhile but I think 0.006" to 0.012" is specs but check this.

Now would be a good time to replace the rope rear main seal w/a rubber seal. BOP, Ames and others has them. IIRC Ames were the cheapest (~$30) but that may have changed.

Might as well get a look at the rod bearings while you're at it. I'd plan on replace the timing set. Replace or at least carefully inspecting the oil pump. Gaskets are a given. Would be nice to freshen the rings and hone it, but if you keep this up long, you'll be fully rebuilding it if you're not careful!
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