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-   -   2002 4L60E rebuild with some issues...... (http://www.hotrodders.com/forum/2002-4l60e-rebuild-some-issues-208525.html)

Sierra02 11-10-2011 09:25 PM

2002 4L60E rebuild with some issues......
 
2002 Sierra 4.3 w/ 4L60e trans.

This is my first auto rebuild

I had originally lost 2nd gear and then I lost 4th gear. I rode with 1st and 3rd for a few weeks before I got around to replacing the fluid/filter and shift solenoids only to still have the issue.

I ordered this rebuild kit. Since the research I did on the issue could have been several things (sun shell, sun gear, 2-4 band, servo, ect) I decided to replace everything I could when I was in there.

During the rebuild (and not being a knowlegdable transmission tech) I couldn't seem to see any sign of reason to why I lost 2-4 gears. Well, everything in there looked like it was in excellent shape. No metal in the pan, gears,clutches, seals all looked fairly new (for my first look inside an automatic). I went by the book on the rebuild as well as the installation of the shift kit. Taking my time and double checking every step. (So I thought)

Upon reinstalling the transmission and dumping 10qts in proir to start up, when I did start the truck the motor had a strain on it like it didnt want to stay running. After a minute of running it started to act normal. Then I proceeded to check the fluid and the dip stick was almost full to the top of the tube. The pump was not circulating the fluid (I assumed). I let it run for about 5 minutes longer then I tried to test Reverse and nothing, Drive and nothing, 1st and nothing, ect. I then realized I had broke the rotor in the pump. So I removed the transmission again and yes I broke the rotor:
http://i.imgur.com/kgO8W.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/U6Qva.jpg
And the pan after the first removal:
http://i.imgur.com/R8HBr.jpg

Since I had the transmission out I decided to pull everything back out and inspect it since I had ran it with no circulation of the fluid. Everything seemed to look ok until I found this:
http://i.imgur.com/TCG3z.jpg

Which is 654c in the skematic in the input clutch housing
http://i.imgur.com/D9zZc.jpg

So moving along I reassembled everything and reinstalled the transmission for the second time now :pain: I started the truck up and it had a slight strain on the engine causing the headlights to dim due to lower RPM's. Well that went away after a minute of running and I checked the fluid and well I got the TC right this time. So backing out the garage I had reverse!! So putting it in drive for the first time I took off real easy. First gear then shifted to second gear (slightly harder shift then before the rebuild/shift kit). Second gear rev'd up to 3K rpm and then it just broke, as in it dropped off like it was in neutral or slipping. It never went to 3rd gear. So once it slipped out of 2nd and it went back to first gear it never would shift back to 2nd gear. Just stayed in first gear. I brought the truck back home and called it a night.

The next morning I went out for another test drive, shifted from 1-2 and then the same thing happened. So I proceed to pull the plug on the harness to run the truck in default. In DRIVE there was no 3rd gear, it was in first gear. Manual shifting I could get 1st and 2nd gear and they function well. At WOT it will still not shift from 1-2 with the harness plugged up.

So I pull a code from the CEL and I get the DTC P0741 which is the TCC. But from the research I have done even with the TCC being faulty (could be several reasons why it tripped the PCM) that should not effect me from shifting into 3rd gear/OD

Right now I have reverse and only when the truck is cold I have 1st and 2nd gear until it warms up then I only have 1st and reverse.

I am giving in and finally posting for some help! I am at a loss on what to do, what to check, and really not looking forward to pulling the transmission back off again :mad: Maybe someone with more experience than me can chime in. And help me out.

Crosley 11-12-2011 07:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sierra02
2002 Sierra 4.3 w/ 4L60e trans.

This is my first auto rebuild

I had originally lost 2nd gear and then I lost 4th gear. I rode with 1st and 3rd for a few weeks before I got around to replacing the fluid/filter and shift solenoids only to still have the issue.

I ordered this rebuild kit. Since the research I did on the issue could have been several things (sun shell, sun gear, 2-4 band, servo, ect) I decided to replace everything I could when I was in there.

During the rebuild (and not being a knowlegdable transmission tech) I couldn't seem to see any sign of reason to why I lost 2-4 gears. Well, everything in there looked like it was in excellent shape. No metal in the pan, gears,clutches, seals all looked fairly new (for my first look inside an automatic). I went by the book on the rebuild as well as the installation of the shift kit. Taking my time and double checking every step. (So I thought)

Upon reinstalling the transmission and dumping 10qts in proir to start up, when I did start the truck the motor had a strain on it like it didnt want to stay running. After a minute of running it started to act normal. Then I proceeded to check the fluid and the dip stick was almost full to the top of the tube. The pump was not circulating the fluid (I assumed). I let it run for about 5 minutes longer then I tried to test Reverse and nothing, Drive and nothing, 1st and nothing, ect. I then realized I had broke the rotor in the pump. So I removed the transmission again and yes I broke the rotor:

And the pan after the first removal:

Since I had the transmission out I decided to pull everything back out and inspect it since I had ran it with no circulation of the fluid. Everything seemed to look ok until I found this:

Which is 654c in the skematic in the input clutch housing


So moving along I reassembled everything and reinstalled the transmission for the second time now :pain: I started the truck up and it had a slight strain on the engine causing the headlights to dim due to lower RPM's. Well that went away after a minute of running and I checked the fluid and well I got the TC right this time. So backing out the garage I had reverse!! So putting it in drive for the first time I took off real easy. First gear then shifted to second gear (slightly harder shift then before the rebuild/shift kit). Second gear rev'd up to 3K rpm and then it just broke, as in it dropped off like it was in neutral or slipping. It never went to 3rd gear. So once it slipped out of 2nd and it went back to first gear it never would shift back to 2nd gear. Just stayed in first gear. I brought the truck back home and called it a night.

The next morning I went out for another test drive, shifted from 1-2 and then the same thing happened. So I proceed to pull the plug on the harness to run the truck in default. In DRIVE there was no 3rd gear, it was in first gear. Manual shifting I could get 1st and 2nd gear and they function well. At WOT it will still not shift from 1-2 with the harness plugged up.

So I pull a code from the CEL and I get the DTC P0741 which is the TCC. But from the research I have done even with the TCC being faulty (could be several reasons why it tripped the PCM) that should not effect me from shifting into 3rd gear/OD

Right now I have reverse and only when the truck is cold I have 1st and 2nd gear until it warms up then I only have 1st and reverse.

I am giving in and finally posting for some help! I am at a loss on what to do, what to check, and really not looking forward to pulling the transmission back off again :mad: Maybe someone with more experience than me can chime in. And help me out.


I would suggest smaller photos , they make reading the post difficult.

that trans does not have issues, it has problems.

Sounds like you did not set up the input drum correct clearances.

Did the drum air check? Where the clutch pack clearances checked or not?

Where the sealing rings in good shape, not cut? Was the stator tube in good smooth condition?

Since there is no 3rd gear with electric plug off... this indicates a problem in the aluminum drum or oil feeds to the drum.

1st gear and 2nd gear only when cold indicate a leak some where too

Sierra02 11-12-2011 08:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crosley
I would suggest smaller photos , they make reading the post difficult.

that trans does not have issues, it has problems.

Sounds like you did not set up the input drum correct clearances.

Did the drum air check? Where the clutch pack clearances checked or not?

Where the sealing rings in good shape, not cut? Was the stator tube in good smooth condition?

Since there is no 3rd gear with electric plug off... this indicates a problem in the aluminum drum or oil feeds to the drum.

1st gear and 2nd gear only when cold indicate a leak some where too

I pulled the transmission back off the truck and started to disassemble it again. I noticed the very bottom teflon oil seal on the input shaft was cut in half and missing a very tiny piece once I pulled the pump out. This could be due to be not having the correct tool to install those rings. Then i pulled the input housing out and then air checked it again and it functions but I did not check the clearances because I could not locate the required spacing. I disassembled the housing and did not notice anything else damaged. The stator tube was fine.

Everything else throughout the trans looked in working order.

I will resize the pictures. Sorry about that.

Crosley 11-12-2011 10:47 AM

a number of methods if you have solid teflon type sealing rings on the input shaft.

You use soda can metal wrapped around the rings. Compress with hose type clamp. Be very careful and slow

Scarf cut the sealing rings and use the soda can metal is another method.

I prefer L cut sealing rings for ease of use - install

clearnace on clutch packs... plan for .010 for each double friction sided ... 5 frictions = .050 minimum

:pimp:

Sierra02 11-12-2011 01:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crosley
a number of methods if you have solid teflon type sealing rings on the input shaft.

You use soda can metal wrapped around the rings. Compress with hose type clamp. Be very careful and slow

Scarf cut the sealing rings and use the soda can metal is another method.

I prefer L cut sealing rings for ease of use - install

clearnace on clutch packs... plan for .010 for each double friction sided ... 5 frictions = .050 minimum

:pimp:

Awesome idea, I was sitting here for the past hour trying to figure out what I could use to make a home made seal resizer.

Thanks again for the clearance info, I'm going out to start putting it back together now and try that seal resizer idea.

:thumbup:

Sierra02 11-14-2011 08:24 AM

Ok, after putting the trans back together and verifying that the 3-4 clutch pack was installed correctly and checked the clearances. As well as air checking everything and recleaning of the transmission.

When I test drove the transmission was doing the same thing but this time throwing DTC P0757 (solenoid B stuck on). I did some research and found this:

Quote:

Some customers may comment on any of the following conditions:
• An illuminated MIL where DTC P0757 is found as a history code in the PCM or TCM;
• No third and fourth gear;
• The transmission does not shift correctly;
• The transmission feels like it shifts to Neutral or a loss of drive occurs; and/or
• The vehicle free wheels above 30 mph. High rpm needed to overcome the free wheeling.
This condition may be caused by any of the following:
• Chips or debris plugging the bleed orifice of the 2-3 shift solenoid (367). This will cause the transmission to stay in second gear when third gear is commanded and return to first gear when fourth gear is commanded.

• A 2-3 shift valve (368) or 2-3 shuttle valve (369) that is stuck, restricted and/or hung-up in its bore.
This condition may also be an indication of a damaged 2-4 band or 3-4 clutches. This clutch damage may generate debris causing the 2-3 shift valve line-up to stick in the valve body bore and set DTC P0757.
1. Inspect the condition of the transmission fluid for signs of overheat or a burnt odor. If either is noted, the transmission should be disassembled for further investigation and repaired as needed.

See Figure 1.
2. Inspect the inside of the oil pan for signs of clutch friction material. A small amount of friction material in the bottom of the pan is normal. If a large amount of clutch material is noted in the fluid or bottom pan, the transmission should be disassembled for further investigation and repaired as needed.
3. Inspect and clean the 2-3 shift valve (368), the 2-3 shuttle valve (369) and the valve bore of debris/ metal chips.
4. Inspect and clean the 2-3 shift solenoid (367B) opening of debris/metal chips. While inspecting the 2-3 shift solenoid (367B), look for a screen over the solenoid opening. If the solenoid does not have a screen, replace the solenoid. All current GMSPO stock shift solenoids have a screen over the solenoid opening.
5. If clutch debris is found, it is also important to inspect the pressure control (PC) solenoid valve fluid screens. Clean or replace the PC solenoid as necessary. It is also important to flush and flow-check the transmission oil cooler using J 45096.

Refer to SI “Automatic Transmission Oil Cooler Flushing and Flow Test” for the procedure.
Just for **** and giggles I went ahead and replaced the solenoid and pulled the 2-3 shuttle valve out and cleaned the bore. Reinstalled the pan and test drove it only to have the same exact thing happen.

I have gone through the valve body with a took pick, the gaskets are the correct gaskets, all 7 check balls are in the correct locations. The forward accumulator is installed correctly.

I dont see how I could have burnt up the clutches on 3-4 with less than 5 miles on them. I also dont know what the hell is going on to stop it from shifting to third.

Video of the test ride after I got it all back together (before the solenoid replacement)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...&v=0yLup4_xqRA

123pugsy 11-14-2011 04:21 PM

Did you use the gold spacers in the servo that came with the shift kit?

I've had the band hang up from these before.

I'm no expert, just throwing this out there.

Sierra02 11-14-2011 06:15 PM

The shift kit did not come with any spacers for the servo. Only replaced the 2 springs I believe.

greywolf40 12-21-2011 02:39 PM

I made a decent little 4l60e rebuild/teardown video here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JpmJtuVrdWk
Hope it helps!


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