2004r 700r4 C10 for driver - Hot Rod Forum : Hotrodders Bulletin Board
Hotrodders.com -- Hot Rod Forum



Register FAQ Search Today's Posts Unanswered Posts Auto Escrow Insurance Auto Loans
Hot Rod Forum : Hotrodders Bulletin Board > Tech Help> Transmission - Rearend
User Name
Password
lost password?   |   register now

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
  #1 (permalink)  
Old 03-22-2011, 04:38 PM
spinn's Avatar
I Wear 1 Pair of Sox at a Time
 

Last journal entry: This makes a huge difference
Last photo:
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: midwest
Posts: 2,374
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 9
Thanked 78 Times in 76 Posts
2004r 700r4 C10 for driver

The choice is between the two, my pick is the 2004r. For conveince the 2004r bolts in , uses the same driveshaft, cooling lines even fit. The TCC lockup connector is the same as the current th350c. The TV 350c QJet carb system is the same for a 2004r. Supposedly the 2004r loses less power through the transmission than 700r4 , allowing the 200 to put more power down on the road from the same engine. Both 200 and 700r4 are lockup trans. This is a workhorse highway vehicle.

My Chevy 85 c10 truck is 5000 lb. Will a good 2004r survive this daily.
305 sbc
906 vortec
perfr cam
perfr intake
QJet tuned
Hedmn Headers through 2.5 dynomx HSTurbos
3.73 8.5 rear , 28" tire
about 300/300 hp/tq, shifts at 4,8-5,000rpms.

What has been overlooked? What would you use the 700R4. If so is a 700r4 harder to break ?

    Advertisement
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
  #2 (permalink)  
Old 03-22-2011, 05:39 PM
JeffB's Avatar
Registered User
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Phoenix,AZ
Age: 68
Posts: 1,646
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 2
Thanked 77 Times in 70 Posts
As long as your donor 200R4 is between 1987 and 1993 it would be a good build,1986 and earlier had a lot of lubrication issues that made them unreliable,this also holds true for the same years of the 700R4 after 1993 they were computer controled and would not be good for your swap.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #3 (permalink)  
Old 03-22-2011, 07:38 PM
spinn's Avatar
I Wear 1 Pair of Sox at a Time
 

Last journal entry: This makes a huge difference
Last photo:
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: midwest
Posts: 2,374
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 9
Thanked 78 Times in 76 Posts
It is the TCI catalog order O D trans. The 700r4 has a adjustable governor to control the shift points. 350/400/700 TCI kit has weights and springs. Is there a system like it for the 2004r ?

Is the TV QJet throttle plate for th350c's the same as 700r4's TV cable plate?

Last edited by spinn; 03-22-2011 at 07:45 PM.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #4 (permalink)  
Old 03-23-2011, 04:44 PM
SSedan64's Avatar
Registered User
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Macon, GA.
Age: 50
Posts: 6,016
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 46 Times in 46 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by spinn
It is the TCI catalog order O D trans. The 700r4 has a adjustable governor to control the shift points. 350/400/700 TCI kit has weights and springs. Is there a system like it for the 2004r ?

Is the TV QJet throttle plate for th350c's the same as 700r4's TV cable plate?
There is no Gov Recal kit for the 2004R Trans but, the OZ/KZ code= Olds/HO-442 or CQ/CZ code= MonteCarloSS Trans would shift close to where you want. Both of these Tran's Valvebodies & Govs are tuned for 3.73 rear gear. Taller rear tires like used on many Trucks will change the shifts slightly tho'.
Gov calibration is DIY or send it off for work only.

The 700R4's 3.06 1st gear may give you better take off with a heavy Truck. Either Trans will need to be well built for HD/Towing use etc..

The Q-Jet Throttle Shaft linkage is different for the TH350C as it uses a Detent Cable, the Shaft's stud location & geometry is different from the 700R4's TV Cable connection point.

Detent & TV cable Q-Jet Throttle Shaft differences>> http://www.montecarloss.com/communit...192#Post825192
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #5 (permalink)  
Old 03-23-2011, 06:31 PM
Registered User
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Seattle, Wa
Posts: 6,692
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 3
Thanked 404 Times in 349 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by spinn
The choice is between the two, my pick is the 2004r. For conveince the 2004r bolts in , uses the same driveshaft, cooling lines even fit. The TCC lockup connector is the same as the current th350c. The TV 350c QJet carb system is the same for a 2004r. Supposedly the 2004r loses less power through the transmission than 700r4 , allowing the 200 to put more power down on the road from the same engine. Both 200 and 700r4 are lockup trans. This is a workhorse highway vehicle.

My Chevy 85 c10 truck is 5000 lb. Will a good 2004r survive this daily.
305 sbc
906 vortec
perfr cam
perfr intake
QJet tuned
Hedmn Headers through 2.5 dynomx HSTurbos
3.73 8.5 rear , 28" tire
about 300/300 hp/tq, shifts at 4,8-5,000rpms.

What has been overlooked? What would you use the 700R4. If so is a 700r4 harder to break ?
The 200R4 is intended for 4 and 6 cylinder passenger cars, it is not a device you want trapped between a V8 and 5000 pound truck.

The only reason these things get reworked for competition duty behind V8s is that the gear ratios are closer together allowing the engine to hang closer to the power peaks in a drag race. To do that takes some big bucks put inside the tranny. Otherwise it does not deal well with torque which is why it didn't show up behind V8s but did behind the Grand National Buick turbo V6 as it doesn't hit with pounds of torque, but spreads the power gain over more time so the internals aren't suddenly overwhelmed with shock load.

Bogie
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #6 (permalink)  
Old 03-24-2011, 03:19 PM
spinn's Avatar
I Wear 1 Pair of Sox at a Time
 

Last journal entry: This makes a huge difference
Last photo:
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: midwest
Posts: 2,374
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 9
Thanked 78 Times in 76 Posts
My understanding is the 700r4 is a weaker trans . The company TCI claims the 700R and 2004 are able to handle 300hp/300tq . If the 700R4 has a higher torque reading that tells me something. The truck with not be abused , but will be throttled, with a forced downshift or 2.

Governing the 3.73 gear 5000lb truck, getting 4800rpm shift points work best. A 700 would retain the familiar system.

A 700 swap needs New-
driveshaft resize
speeometer adapter
cooling lines
crossover- this is a big deal
Drill frame crossover holes
TV system with plate- contradicing setup
TV adjustable cable
TV cable mount
is this list missing anything ?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #7 (permalink)  
Old 03-24-2011, 05:18 PM
Registered User
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Seattle, Wa
Posts: 6,692
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 3
Thanked 404 Times in 349 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by spinn
My understanding is the 700r4 is a weaker trans . The company TCI claims the 700R and 2004 are able to handle 300hp/300tq . If the 700R4 has a higher torque reading that tells me something. The truck with not be abused , but will be throttled, with a forced downshift or 2.

Governing the 3.73 gear 5000lb truck, getting 4800rpm shift points work best. A 700 would retain the familiar system.

A 700 swap needs New-
driveshaft resize
speeometer adapter
cooling lines
crossover- this is a big deal
Drill frame crossover holes
TV system with plate- contradicing setup
TV adjustable cable
TV cable mount
is this list missing anything ?
A TCI beefed up 200R4 has about the stock capability of a 1987 up 700R4. The early 700R4 had problems which were fixed by 87.

Lets go thru GM transmission logic:

- The TH200 was a 3 speed made to go behind 4 and 6 cylinder vehicles of light to moderate weight. That means 110 to maybe 160 horsepower in a vehicle of 3000 pounds or less. The indicator in GM parlance is the 200 in the number means it's designed for about 200 foot pounds of input torque from the engine.

The 200R4 is a TH200 modified into a 4 speed with the addition of an overdrive gear.

- The TH350 was a 3 speed made to go behind large 6 cylinder thru medium sized V8's in moderate to heavy vehicles. That means about 160 to 300 horse in vehicles from 3000 to 6000 pounds. Again the indicator is 350 which is the high side design torque value from the attached engine.

The 700R4, 4L60, 4L60E, and 4L65E are TH350's redesigned to have a 4th overdrive gear. Hers is where the 700R4 got into trouble. GM's need for transmission design engineers and the loss of cash flow causing layoffs of what few engineer's they had collided after the 200R4 design and right at the outset of the 700R4 and the still born 800R4. The 700R4 was intended for the same applications as the TH350 had been. But with insufficient engineering manpower the 800R4 for big motors and heavy gross weight or towing package vehicles was shelved. The 700R4 was forced into applications it wasn't designed for and quickly developed a reputation for in-service failure. GM was quickly forced into a redesign of the 700R4 but most of the engineering talent was already off working on the electronically controlled trannies and the 4 speed replacement of the TH400. So fixes for the 700R4 were late in coming and not finalized till 1987 production. They renamed the thing as 4L60 for 1990. That mechanical/hydraulic 700R4/4L60 was converted to electronic controls for 1992 and renamed the 4L60E.

- The TH400 was the heavy duty 3 speed automatic and it is heavy compared to the other hyda-matics. This is designed for 400 ft pound torque engines and vehicles up to 8000 pounds. It was mated to big blocks in everything and small blocks in heavy duty trucks. You might even find it factory installed behind small block 400's in cars.

Replacing the TH400 with a 4 speed was delayed so the 400 was used in HD apps although renamed the 3L80 in 1987. It continued to be used in heavy duty vehicles long after the passenger cars and pick ups had acquired the 700R4. But GM leap-frogged the electronic 4L60E by year and produced the 4L80E for 1991 production, so there never was a mechanically controlled version of 4L80E as happened with the 700R4/4L60.

Gm got sued in the late 1970s and early 80's over having put TH200 transmissions in to heavy vehicles with V8 engines. The failure rate of a TH200 behind a 305 or 350 in a Monte Carlo sized car was huge. My wife had one of these monstrosities. When I was done fixing it; the thing acquired a 454 and TH400. That made a half-way decent family car out of it.

So GM is telling you the design limit in the id numbers of the transmisison. The latest method is to eliminate the torque rating in pound feet and restate it as a percentage of perfection.

4L30 not so good
4L60 good
4L65 a bit gooder
4L80 really good
4L85 better than really good
4L100 would be nirvana, I guess

Bogie
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #8 (permalink)  
Old 03-24-2011, 06:04 PM
spinn's Avatar
I Wear 1 Pair of Sox at a Time
 

Last journal entry: This makes a huge difference
Last photo:
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: midwest
Posts: 2,374
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 9
Thanked 78 Times in 76 Posts
What your saying is correct the a 200 would not be the way to go. Thanks, this is difficult the tranny cable should have been made to operate the same as in the past. 700 might be needed.

Looks like bowtieoverdrive or TV EZ is a good source for the TV fix thing. The TV plate might be tricky?

Anybody reuse their GM pickups crossmember, or know where to get a 305/700r4 factory crossmember ?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

Recent Transmission - Rearend posts with photos

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now

In order to be able to post messages on the Hot Rod Forum : Hotrodders Bulletin Board forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name (usually not your first and last name), your email address and other required details in the form below.
User Name:
If you do not want to register, fill this field only and the name will be used as user name for your post.
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.
Password:
Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.
Email Address:

Log-in

Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
700R4 and 2004R 69 C-10 stepside Transmission - Rearend 4 10-06-2010 02:19 AM
TH-350 to 2004r or 700r4 montea Transmission - Rearend 9 12-31-2004 01:05 AM
2004R vs 700R4 ? bowtieorbust Transmission - Rearend 1 01-31-2004 12:44 AM
700R4 vs 2004R Busted Knuckles Transmission - Rearend 9 12-05-2003 11:20 AM
700R4 vs. 2004R 81ElCaminoGuy Transmission - Rearend 2 08-21-2002 01:10 AM


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 10:18 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0 PL2
Copyright Hotrodders.com 1999 - 2012. All Rights Reserved.