Hi all,
I have a 83 cutlass wagon with a new 350hp/350sbc. I changed the rearend to from a 2.73 open to a 3.73 with Auburn posi. I drove the car with a stage 1 B+M shift kit in the original TH350 for 3 months or so while I was preping a 2004R overdrive tranny for the car. Transgo HD shift kit, tranny mount and EZ TV cable kit etc... The wagon really goes with the TH350. I get a real good bark on both wheels on the fisrt/Second shift. It is a real sleeper to most people. With an empty carseat and a Whinny the Pooh sunshade on the rear window it really suprizes a lot of people! After all it is a family car being a wagon and all :) Anyways, I did the 2004R swap about 2 weeks ago. It seems like I have lost about 20-30hp. The 2004R should give me a better 1st gear and a better 2nd over the TH350 but the car seems slower. The tranny works great, shifts very well, I put in the Bowtie EZ TV cable kit and did the pressure calibrations. It's all good, but it really seems slower. I was wondering if anyone has experienced this or knows what the losses of the 2004R are. I looked all over here and the net and can't find any numbers on the 20004R.
Thanks in advance
Zeder

Sounds like you did things right, but I'm not familiar with the shift kit from Transgo.
I just swapped out my TH350 with a 700R4 from Bowtie Overdrives including the TVmadeEZ system from them. I am very happy with the 700R4 over the TH350. The 2004R should be similar except for gear ratios. Did you remember to plug the vacuum port that used to be used for the vacuum modulator on the TH350? I can't think of any reason why it should have slowed down other than the possible vacuum hose.

I didn't need a shift kit at all. Bowtie puts some crisp shift points in the 700R4 and the tires squeak in 1-2 and 2-3 with my little tiny 283.

Was the tranny rebuilt? or used and condition unknown? TVmadeEZ set up right so that you're not going into overdrive early in all gears, or lockup converter in all gears, or 2nd gear starts? Wiring hooked up right for the lockup converter?

I would be curious if you have a lower stall converter in the 200-4r tranny

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Save the earth , choke a tree .... save a squirrel

Hey Guys,
The trans was a used GM Service Replacement with around 20K miles on it. There was a little material in the pan but nothing abmormal. The vacuum port is plugged. The trans does lockup in all gears. I can tell because with the vacuum switch disconnected the shifts are crisp but not head snapping. When I reconnect the vacuum switch the shifts shake the fillings in my teeth. Its really harsh! It will aid in the development of my 5 month old son's neck muscles for sure! Also when it shifts into overdrive and the converter is locked it feels very much like a standard trans. I mean the whole drivetrain loads up and unloads 2 or 3 times if I don't have my foot into it just like when you drop the clutch and stall a car with a manual trans in it. It kind of lurches back and forth because of all the backlash in the rearend/driveshaft/trans. The car originally had a lockup converter in it so the wiring part should be correct. Same plug on both transmissions. It does function correctly with the exception of locking up in all gears. I think this is happening because of the pressure increase to the factory switch in valvebody in the trans from the shiftkit mods. The converter does unlock when I am sitting at the lights. It doesn't stall. I can also see it on the tach when I am driving too, just touch the brakes and I get ~200 rpms more. Let the brake go and the rpms drop.
Crosley good point! I don't know if there is a difference. Both trans had its own factory lockup converter in it.
I am wondering if the shiftkit mods which boost line pressure in the trans amung other things is "using" more hp to turn the front pump? Is the 2004R heavier than the TH350? I don't know!
Zeder

Okay, couple things here...

1. You never, never,NEVER install a shift kit in the 200-4R, this is a sure fire way to kill a 200-4R.

2. Sounds like crosley said, stock converter on the 200-4R compared to the TH350s converter.

3. If you rebuilt this trans yourself, did you read up on any of the performance upgrades? Or did you just use a rebuild kit?

4. you need the vacuum hooked up on the 200-4R

Now while I'm no expert on transmissions, I do know a few things about the 200's and first thing is to get rid of that shift kit. There are mods to do when rebuilding the 200's to change the shift points(example, different weights/springs on the governer), or you can attempt to change the line pressure with the TV cable, but messing with the TV cable is another way to kill the 200's real fast. Also are you using the ECU?

The normal HP useage of the 200-4R is about 25-30HP. The TH350 takes about 35HP.

200r4's don't use a vacuum modulator they have a tv cable instead

Some 200-4R's have a vacuum port on the top of the transmission.

Thats a vent

Thats routes up to the engine compartment? I need to look this one up again.

I'd be listening to R R ....


there is no vacuum hooked to a 200-4r

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Save the earth , choke a tree .... save a squirrel

that's hilarious! Obviosly SOMEBODY hasn't built a 200R4 before

lmao

K

Har Har

Don't know everything you know.

And YES I'm still building my 200-4R, Would you like some pictures since it's laying right here?

No there is no vacuum line to the 2004R. The kit had a few goodies in it like a larger boost valve and the usual stiffer springs to change various trans parameters. I also put a hardend stator shaft on the front pump. The original one looked very scary, especially for the low mile I put on it! The trango HD kit is very complete. Maybe you (87442lover) have had a bad experiance with shift kits, but I've done 4 now, FMX/C4/TH350 and the 2004R and eveyone has worked great! I must admit I have learned a lot about each of these trans by doing it. Also the warnings about the TV cable adjustment being ultra critical is a bit over stated. It is very, very important but if you take the time to put a pressure gauge on the trans it is very easy to "tune" the trans a bit and still give it some longevity. My initial take on the car slowing down, I can't explain. Still very happy with the overall setup. So time will tell I guess! I have about 3000miles on it so far, so I hope it will last.
Take Care All
Thanks!

it may interest you to compare g body monte carlo ss times.
first few years of ss came with a t350 and 3.42's.
then, 200r4 and 3.73's.
between the gear swap and increase in first gear ratio from 2.52 to 2.76,and higer stall in the 4 speed, you'd think the newer car would be significantly quicker.
nope.
the 3 speed car was faster by the numbers and felt stronger, noticeably.
why?
pretty obvious - the 4 speed uses more power to run itself.

not trying to start any hassles in my first post, but 87442 - what planet did you get those power loss numbers from?
they're not even close, not to mention power used is really a percentage of engine power, not a fixed number, to some extent.

Yes Rockvillespeed, I think this is the only explanation. By the way the car feels ,its down 20hp for sure! It still rocks for a wagon. I guess with the overdrive I can go more that 30 miles from home now:] , without revving the crap out of my motor. So I will live with it for now. Hummmm, maybe a little N2O to tip the scales in my favor a little bit more:]
Cheers!