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Old 05-10-2006, 09:24 PM
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2004r's running hot ????

This question is pretty lengthy so bare with me. More details the better diagnoses I get. 1971 Nova,361 ci.,373 gears,625 demon carb/w tv made ez,level 3 2004r from BTO,2200 stall converter. I'm having problems with the trans running hot or hotter than I would like. Temperature sender is in the pan located at the 45 degree shape at the back of the pan (drivers side). The motor will run 160 to 180 degrees all day long depending on which thermostat I use, currently has 160 stat. The trans runs 180 and climbing depending on how many shift cycles (stop light after stop light). If I just cruise on the open road with the converter locked it'll reach about 190 after @25 miles and sort of stabilize, but don't dare stop and make it go thru another shift cycle (gets hotter). Ambient outside is 64 degrees "Hmmmm". Things I've tried to cool it down: corvette electric fan,4 core and 3 core brand new radiators,8x11x3/4 cooler,8x11x1-1/2 28000 gvw B&M super cooler (both tried in series with the radiator and alone),went back to the stock fan and shroud with the big cooler this seemed to work the best. OK here's the catch; just to prove a point took a used tranny out of a cadillac AA code trans with a different converter (same heating problem, the trans would get so hot the torque converter didn't want to unlock "solenoid stuck"). Pulled the pan off to take a look, what a mess, fure sure it was getting hot as the devil. Tried one out of a monte ss with a D5 converter, melted it down to shredds. Now all this is normal driving, not getting on it. What should the temps be in the pan? (BTO recommends 150 but that seems mighty cool to me, hell I can't get none of them to stay below 180).

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Old 05-10-2006, 09:37 PM
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Normal operating temp at the pan is 160-200 degrees.
If the temp goes up in city type driving, then comes down in extended freeway driving, the trans functions correctly. Look HARD at airflow across the cooler. Air WILL seek the path of least resistance, and will create voids or vacuum pockets regardless of where you THINK it should go. It will and does move to a natural, low pressure area. Sounds like the original trans worked fine............
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Old 05-11-2006, 11:31 AM
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agreed. 200 is fine. Even if it creeps up more occasionally its fine.
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Old 05-11-2006, 03:38 PM
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Same issue!

I am having the same issue. I have a 71 chevelle with a 383, BTO 200R4 with a 2600 stall and 3.73 gears. The pan temp was a consistant 180 - 190. I have since put in an 8 row aux cooler before the rad in air flow and the lines hit the rad first then onto the aux cooler. (I hope that makes sense.) I have not tried it yet due to Michigan weather. Next nice day. . .I'm off.

What does not make sense is tha tmy th350 with a 2600 stall NEVER had any heating issues. Go figure?
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Old 05-11-2006, 05:51 PM
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Thanks for the replies. Remember last night it was 63 and today it's 72 outside. Trans temps are around 220 normal driving 25 miles with about 5 shift cycles. I'm afraid It won't make it in the summer time @ 90 degrees outside. Somethings going on I can't put my finger on. I've never had something stump me like this. I have a hughes deep pan I'm gonna try when I get a chance. I have a bundle tied up in this trying to make it work. I even pulled the headers off and put old ram's horn manifolds on to get rid of some heat (and it did help). This is the third 2004r tranny. I'm just before giving up and putting the th350 back in. I really really appreciate your input/replies. I'm willing to try any and all suggestions I haven't tried yet and post results.
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Old 05-15-2006, 06:21 AM
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Are you sure that the fluid fill is correct?
Also, make sure you are getting lock up in 4th!
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Old 05-16-2006, 07:15 PM
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testing continues: Fluid level is about 1/2 a quart over. Converter is locking up in 4th only, I've got it on the brake light switch and tested every test run. Ambient is 66 degrees today. I've been running a 50/50 mix of antifreeze and water. I dropped back to a 25-30% mix and guess what? It dropped the temps to a steady 175-180 degrees (same 25 mile around the block with 5 shift cycles or stop signs). One thing I noticed today is temps go up with speed on the freeway or four lane as we call it (running 60 and speed up to 70 and hold it for a stretch). I noticed one brief period of 190. Does that mean I may have a air flow problem as was pointed out earlier ? I haven't put the deep pan on yet, I want to try and cure it stock first. Oh, it has a brand new radiator core support with no holes. Keep punching me with the questions and we'll make it live this summer.
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Old 05-17-2006, 08:42 AM
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According to the trans guys here, you should correct the fill level to full exactly. On that type of trans any over fill just casues heat build up.

You stated that you have an aux cooler.
Where and how is it mounted?
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Old 05-17-2006, 05:40 PM
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Presently I have a 8x11x1-1/2 B&M super cooler mounted towards the passenger side in front of the radiator lying sideways where it should be the coolest I think. Lines run from the top line off the trans to the bottom of the radiator, out the top of the radiator to the bottom of the cooler, out the top of the cooler and back to the bottom fitting on the trans. Today it's 70 degrees ambient and the trans is 195 (same 25 mile road test), I'm afraid it will just keep climbing if I continue driving further. I'll drain the pan down to Full exactly and see. Thanks for the reply.
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Old 05-18-2006, 05:35 PM
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Drained the pan to exactly the full mark. Made no appreciable difference. Took the car to a friends house who has a lift to put the deep pan on(beats working under ramps). He lives about a mile off the highway down in the woods. Idling back there the trans creep-ed up to about 210 so I know it won't make it in city traffic. I don't know what else to try. One thought crossed my mind, could it be possible that I have the wrong dip stick ? Where on the pan rail or any reference point should the fluid level be so I can mark the stick if it's wrong ?
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Old 05-19-2006, 06:15 AM
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You stated that you have a bowtie overdrive trans. They should have send a list of installation instruction with it.
According to them, the dipstick full level should be marked at the machined surface of the pan rail. In other words the fluid level should be level with the bottom of the trans/pan gasket.
What were your pressures at idle in P/N/D/3/2/1?
What were your pressures at 1500 RPM p/N/D/3/2/1?
Does the line pressure increase when you move the TV cable??
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Old 05-19-2006, 04:06 PM
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I don't recall the exact pressures but BTO bought off on them, and as I recall they were close to the TCI street fighter chart. Yes I have instant pressure rise with just a flick of the cable. I've been working on this since last summer with different 2004R transmissions. So it's something about the car and an overdrive. Like your chevelle, my TH350 never had any heating issues. You stated yourself yours ran a constant 180-190 (without the aux cooler), which is fine and I agree with if it'll stay there. How much driving have you done and at what ambient temperatures ? It takes mine about 15 miles to reach 170-175 (but it keeps climbing after that). I don't have a beef with BTO, they are and have been very cooperative. This is my second BTO trans, so I think they build a fine product. Fluid at the pan rail, exactly, just wanted to make sure I didn't do anything wrong. I do have a stock tube and stick which I tried and it's right on the money. Like I've been saying, I've turned over about every rock I know to turn over looking for the cause. Even replaced all the seals around the radiator and hood. This an original air conditioned car with the condenser removed from in front of the radiator. I had hoped to reinstall the AC once I get the trans figured out, but I don't think it'll ever work like this. I've installed the deep pan and gonna do the test drive shortly. Keep your fingers crossed. This is my last attempt to make it survive.
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Old 05-19-2006, 07:39 PM
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YEEEEEEEEE HAAAAAAAAA! This is not a sales pitch but I know how to keep a 2004R cool with a small radiator and grill. If you've been following this thread you know too. Temps are a consistent 160 cruising and I couldn't get it over 180 with two burnouts and 70-80 mile an hour cruising. Idling in the yard for an extended period of time brought the temps up to 175 but cruising down the road you could see the temps dropping. First time I seen the gauge go back wards. Oh, this was a 50 mile test run this time. Thanks for putting up with me through this. Now let's here some thoughts about beefing up one of these to go behind my BB chevelle ?
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Old 05-20-2006, 12:35 AM
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Fluid in the pan is somewhat stagnant and not what flows to the lubrication circuits.
Some advocate installing the temp guage in the return cooler line to see what temp the fluid is as it returns to the trans and goes to feed the lube circuits.
It makes sense.

A 200-4R, especially with a stock depth pan, usually needs to be about a 1/2 qt overfilled.

There are some other tricks you can use.

I have a 200-4R behind the 427 in my '69 Chevelle.
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Old 05-20-2006, 06:49 AM
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Is that where you're temp sender is ? What temps do you see ? Doesn't the return line just dump in the pan or does it branch off to the lube circuits and the pan ? I understand the theory of overfill to prevent cavitation under a hard launch. I'm considering a 4L60 filter now with the deep pan. The other "tricks" I could use you refer to, are they internal mods ? My chevelle has 411's and begging for an overdrive and I like the gear step on the 200-vs- the 700. Will it live behind my 454 with a hardened stator, new updated input shaft, wide band, GN servo or aftermarket, transgo HD2, updated sunshell, and a good rebuild ? I found a multi-fit case out of 89 olds 307 KC code, CZ and BRF are hard to come by in this part of the country. It's nothing fancy @500 horses and I don't run slicks but I do jump on it from time to time ?
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