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220 in the garage

6K views 53 replies 21 participants last post by  jetnow1 
#1 ·
has anyone wired 220 in there garage before? i am not an electrian or anywhere near one. or even wireing a 220 extension cord so i can run from my dryer outlet to the garage
thanks for the help
 
#3 ·
I'm nowhere near being an electrician either but I did wire my house and garage, including 220 service, basically by following a couple well written DIY books. You can usually find good wiring books at the big box stores like Lowes or Home Depot.

Two that I would highly recommend are "The Complete Guide to Home Wiring" published by Black & Decker/Creative Publishing International, ISBN 0-86573-636-7, which was $19.95 back when I bought it.

And "Step by Step Guide Book on Home Wiring", by Ray McReynolds, Step-By-Step Guide Book Co., ISBN 0-9619201-0-6 (Can be ordered toll free 1-800-678-1500 if you can't find it in the stores).

One final note, some local codes make it very difficult for the home owner to do their own electrical work. So make sure you don't move forward with your wiring only to have to tear it all out afterward because of local restrictions.
 
#4 ·
dieselsmoke said:
has anyone wired 220 in there garage before? i am not an electrian or anywhere near one. or even wireing a 220 extension cord so i can run from my dryer outlet to the garage
thanks for the help
If you are not 100% sure what you are doing, hire someone. It is nothing to play with, you can easily hurt yourself or burn your house down.
It is not a good idea to extension off a dryer plug either
 
#5 ·
heads up !!

There has been a recall on some Elect books lowes and other stores sell under different covers. I don't know what the problem is . I read a lot of elect books when I started to remodel my house years ago and spend time checking with the maintenance electrician at work. Eventually I got A contractors Lic and cert to teach elect classes. If you can find a friendly electrician to guide you along. My son is an electrical contractor and he stays away from helping home owners do jobs because of the liability issues. He usually tells them to do what they do best and make some money to hire him to do the entire job.
 
#6 ·
220 in a garage

Been an Electrician for 23 years, first there is no 220v, the voltage is 240v, next there are 2 types of people who work with electricity, those that know it, and those that don't. A dryer should not be run on an extension cord, and if you did this cord would be expensive. There are too many variablles without more info, ask around your area for references for an electrician.
 
#9 ·
I did the the whole thing myself after getting a permit. It's important to get the permit as it requires an inspection by a qaualified electrical inspector and the permit eliminates any potential problems with your insurance company if you have a fire. That's also why I keep the GFI in place from the original house wiring to the garage even though my TIG welder trips it occasionally.
That's not a big deal to me as I put my XM radio on a different circuit.

I used 1.25" metal conduit from the main panel around the outside of the house under the eaves to the garage panel and fed the wires through as I erected the conduit.

Not much to it. I was most careful when making the connections at the main panel.

I checked these items three times;

Yes the main breaker is off.
No, I don't have any tools in my hands or pockets that could contact the bus bars.
No, I'm not standing in a puddle of water.

The inspection went smoothly and was signed off with no problems.
 
#10 ·
Old Rotor Flap said:
I did the the whole thing myself after getting a permit. It's important to get the permit as it requires an inspection by a qaualified electrical inspector and the permit eliminates any potential problems with your insurance company if you have a fire. That's also why I keep the GFI in place from the original house wiring to the garage even though my TIG welder trips it occasionally.
That's not a big deal to me as I put my XM radio on a different circuit.

I used 1.25" metal conduit from the main panel around the outside of the house under the eaves to the garage panel and fed the wires through as I erected the conduit.

Not much to it. I was most careful when making the connections at the main panel.

I checked these items three times;

Yes the main breaker is off.
No, I don't have any tools in my hands or pockets that could contact the bus bars.
No, I'm not standing in a puddle of water.

The inspection went smoothly and was signed off with no problems.

SHHHH!
You don't want to let the electricians secret out :pain:
Electricians would like everyone to think they are the only ones that can run power and do it legally and safe.

In between reading up & talking to your inspector BEFORE you start, and following his recommendations anyone can run house wiring safely and legally.



I would sure like to know how it is considered by electricians to be dangerous to run an extension cord from a nema 10-30R/nema 10-30p with soow 8-3 and it is not dangerouss to do this same thing if you used nema14-30r/nema14/30p and soow 8-3. (btw you can buy soow8-3 fr around $2 a foot)

Yes the wire gauge requirement will increase with distance, but compare apples to apples - the potential to recepticle and plug will remain constant.
 
#11 ·
ken konoff said:
A dryer should not be run on an extension cord, and if you did this cord would be expensive. There are too many variablles without more info, ask around your area for references for an electrician.
Making a blanket statement like that without knowledge of any variables is wrong. An extension cord sized properly for the breaker feeding the circuit is perfectly acceptable and safe.

FWIW, If your state licenses electricians make sure who ever you contract with has the proper license.

Vince
 
#12 ·
302 Z28 said:
Making a blanket statement like that without knowledge of any variables is wrong. An extension cord sized properly for the breaker feeding the circuit is perfectly acceptable and safe.

FWIW, If your state licenses electricians make sure who ever you contract with has the proper license.

Vince
If you look at my answer, I said you should not run an dryer on an extension cord. If the person was plugging in this cord to an dryer out let to feed an garage this not acceptable. what I meant by too many variables is that I needed more info to give him advice. Cords in general mean temporary supply of power and if he wanted the proper cord it was going to be very expensive even though I don't approve. So cords stated by a previous viewier are not allowed if exposed to physical damadge. The proper cord left exposed is very expensive for temporary supply of power. Check with any local inspector or local fire marshall. I deal with cords all the time at work, and people just don't know about them. THEY ARE TEMPORARY
 
#13 ·
The OP did not say he wanted to power his garage from a dryer outlet, only that he wanted to run an extension cord from the dryer outlet to the garage. More than likely it is for a welder or an air compressor which is acceptable as long as the wire is sized accordingly.

Vince
 
#14 ·
more elect stuff

Some jurisdictions require only licensed electricians to do elect work and only licensed contractor can get a permit. Other places the home owner can get the permit. The whole key here is do it right, have it checked. 10 years ago I bought an old farm, we did the walk thru and could see a lot of elect work that didn’t' meet code. My son checked the incoming line, Romex ran thru the trees and it was not powered (romex in trees not to code). This was an estate sale so there was no homeowner disclosure of permit-known defect possible. There was a new meter on one side of the house and on the barn side the old box was bare. Someone had wired it so when the back porch was on it powered the shop. barn and horse stalls. I was gone one Sunday and my son turned on the back porch lite and it did about $ 50 k damage. Lucky I had full replacement insurance and 500 deductible.
 
#15 ·
If it is not temporary then what is a cord on an appliance? A 50 or even 100 foot long soow cord wired to his welder and plugged into the dryer recepticle when needed fits your description.
And yes 50 and 100 foot soow cord on welders is common.

What is very expensive?
Each of us has our own definition of the answer to that question.

For me, a couple hundred doolars to make up a cord to be able to run my welder is a cheaper option than spending a few thousand dollars to pay an electrician to wire my garage for a welder outlet, to only find out the outlet isnt close enough to my project to be able to use my mig and I end up buying an extension cord for it.

The topic was how hard to wire a 220 garage circuit, that he has never wired a 220 cord no less.
Why not tell him that wiring a 220 circuit is no more than running one leg off each side of his panel and one nuetral to the recepticle?
why not tell him how to leaglly and safely go about it?
Why give the typical electrician answer?
 
#16 ·
timothale said:
Some jurisdictions require only licensed electricians to do elect work and only licensed contractor can get a permit. Other places the home owner can get the permit. The whole key here is do it right, have it checked. 10 years ago I bought an old farm, we did the walk thru and could see a lot of elect work that didn’t' meet code. My son checked the incoming line, Romex ran thru the trees and it was not powered (romex in trees not to code). This was an estate sale so there was no homeowner disclosure of permit-known defect possible. There was a new meter on one side of the house and on the barn side the old box was bare. Someone had wired it so when the back porch was on it powered the shop. barn and horse stalls. I was gone one Sunday and my son turned on the back porch lite and it did about $ 50 k damage. Lucky I had full replacement insurance and 500 deductible.
http://www.cityofboise.org/Departme...ding/400_HomeownersGuidetoBuildingProcess.pdf
 
#17 ·
Like I said, I needed more info from diesel smoke, to give him advice. I don't know if he is running this cord from an dryer outlet, down a sidewalk, thru a doorway, or what he intends to do. If diesel Smoke gives more info I will gladly try to help him. There are many ways to make electricity turn on an air compressor, welder, drill press, light, but that doesn't make it safe.
 
#18 ·
I just "ran" a single dedicated 220 for my welder into my garage. I use the term "ran" loosley as the fusebox is on the same was as my 220 receptacle.
While it is a quite simple hook up to acomplish, And please note I am not a "licenced anything" except destroyer of working objects.....
I will offer there pieces of advice...
1. Pickup a do it yourself electrical book from Home Depot or Lowes and look through it, you will likely find exactly what you want to know. Heck, you dont need to buy it, just have a look at it and read it.

2. If your gonna run a welder requiring a max amperage draw of 30 amps, and it uses a popular 50 amp receptacle like a Nema 6-50 (like my Hobart does) use a wire that can handle 50 amps or better. The reason is pretty simple for this, perhaps you aquire another "Toy" that uses the same type of plug as the welder, but you overlook the amperage draw it pulls when in use. Its easy to think "I can simply plug it in this outlet, there the same" and next thing you know you got a "smoking wall snake" through the house....lol

3. Run the propper breaker on the other side to compliment the outlet and the line. You could place a lower breaker in the circuit because your welder only draws say 30 amps, but again I would rather have the power needed onhand without requiring a run to the Depot. Most welders have an internal circuit breaker built in that will keep itself in check, I wouldnt buy one without it.
 
#19 ·
RideQuality said:
I just "ran" a single dedicated 220 for my welder into my garage. I use the term "ran" loosley as the fusebox is on the same was as my 220 receptacle.
While it is a quite simple hook up to acomplish, And please note I am not a "licenced anything" except destroyer of working objects.....
I will offer there pieces of advice...
1. Pickup a do it yourself electrical book from Home Depot or Lowes and look through it, you will likely find exactly what you want to know. Heck, you dont need to buy it, just have a look at it and read it.

2. If your gonna run a welder requiring a max amperage draw of 30 amps, and it uses a popular 50 amp receptacle like a Nema 6-50 (like my Hobart does) use a wire that can handle 50 amps or better. The reason is pretty simple for this, perhaps you aquire another "Toy" that uses the same type of plug as the welder, but you overlook the amperage draw it pulls when in use. Its easy to think "I can simply plug it in this outlet, there the same" and next thing you know you got a "smoking wall snake" through the house....lol

3. Run the propper breaker on the other side to compliment the outlet and the line. You could place a lower breaker in the circuit because your welder only draws say 30 amps, but again I would rather have the power needed onhand without requiring a run to the Depot. Most welders have an internal circuit breaker built in that will keep itself in check, I wouldnt buy one without it.
Good points :thumbup:
btw, the circuit breaker in the panel protects the wire from the breaker to the recepticle, not the device plugged into it.
 
#23 ·
Electrical Info

Hey Friends, While I avoid giving electrical advise on this forum due to liability concerns, I can provide some information on some of the issues mentioned here. I have seen some bad advise given on several threads in the past and tended to avoid comment.

On any given circuit, the hot conductor(s) (wire)(s) & the neutral conductor(wire) are considered normal current carrying conductors. The ground conductor(wire) is not considered a normal current carrying conductor, it is only there to carry current in the event of a fault(dead short or leakage to ground) in order to trip the supply breaker to prevent personal injury or fire. It is considered a conductor(wire) that is not normally carrying current, that is why it can be non-insulated(bare).

Okay, the Nema 10 (3-wire) design versus the Nema 14 (4-wire);
A long time ago(telling my age) 220-240 volt appliances used the 3-wire design(dryers,ovens,etc.) All the components within the appliance operated on 220 volts(heating elements,timers,indicator lights,etc). With no component requiring 110 volts, a neutral conductor was not required, hence the three wire setup.
Time passed, appliances changed, introduction of foreign appliances to our markets began. 220/240 volt dryers, stoves and such began showing up with internal components that were 120 volt. These appliances were designed for four wire cords(not supplied generally). Home owners had 3-wire receptacles,
and three wire cords. The illegal connection of three wire cords to four wire appliances began. If you jump the appliance neutral post to the ground post, it will operate under a dangerous condition where the ground conductor(not a normal current carrying conductor) becomes the neutral and starts normally carrying current(its bare remember). Its connected to a ground rod,ground bus, metal piping, metal frame work, etc. This is when the fires began, people had bare wires carrying current, producing heat in their walls, attics, etc. There was a case of a ground wire that went open(cut,broke) in a trailer and the natural gas pipe became the neutral for an appliance. It worked for a long time until one day the trailer was blown to the moon and left a big fire hole in the ground. Inspectors determined what happened, the current flowing through the gas pipe had gradually degraded the black iron pipe down very slowly, all pieces of pipe found had little pinholes through out the surface.

This is where NFPA and NEC changed the code requirements to Nema 14(4-wire) receptacles.

Okay regarding the welders with the 50 amp plugs. Probably 95% of the time they can be run on a 30 amp circuit. The 50 amp supply circuit and 50 amp plug on the welder are sized for the surge current when striking an arc with the machine turned all the way up to the highest current setting and also if the rod sticks. This results in nuisance tripping of a 30 amp breaker and surging/maintaining 30 amp rated wire at a 50 amp level which can smoke the wire and become a fire hazard. Oh, and notice its only a three wire plug, there is no neutral requirement in the welding machine(all internal components operate at the 220/240 volt level).

Okay, regarding the advise by some electrician that a 4 wire temporary cord is ok versus a 3-wire cord being not ok. All too often, a fellow might get the bright idea to turn his 3-wire welding machine cord into his shop feed. Mounts him a little panel, hooks up that 3-wire cord to his panel and starts running everything 120 volt in the shop using a ground conductor(not a normal current carrying conductor) as a neutral(a normal current carrying conductor) resulting in the hazards I explained above.

In closing, I'd like to add that if you're giving folks advise on electrical work, you better hope you definitely know what you're talking about because of liability issues. Sure, anybody can hook up a few wires and get something to work, but the real electricians are trained not only in the wiring hook up, but also in the NEC/NFPA code requirements necessary for avoiding personal injury or fire prevention. All the code requirements are written in charcoal and blood. olnolan
 
#25 ·
OLNOLAN said:
On any given circuit, the hot conductor(s) (wire)(s) & the neutral conductor(wire) are considered normal current carrying conductors...
Okay, the Nema 10 (3-wire) design versus the Nema 14 (4-wire);
Thanks for that history and explanation OLNOLAN. Very informative. Explains some the "mysteries" I've wondered about.
 
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