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  #31 (permalink)  
Old 02-11-2010, 04:52 PM
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against the rules

Ya can't advertise on this forum, its against the rules. They'll be getting on your *** about it soon as a moderator catches it. Ask me how I know.

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  #32 (permalink)  
Old 02-11-2010, 06:30 PM
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Gander...you just got yourself permanently banned from this site for that cute little job of adding your spam link to my quote. You might want to learn a quick lesson. Don't mess with a moderator's quote to make folks think HE posted the spam. They don't take kindly to it.

I rarely get angry at anyone on this site...but for YOU I am making an exception.
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  #33 (permalink)  
Old 02-11-2010, 09:10 PM
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Ouch...LOL
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  #34 (permalink)  
Old 02-12-2010, 06:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ztoy
LOL, been away for a long time, come back and find its the same old arguement about wiring garages.

A monkey can be told to do most anything, but do they know all the inherent risks and what to do when they run into a wrench in the gears?

Electricians usually go through much schooling and training to gain their knowledge, and electrical contractors pay big money for liability insurance. That is what you pay for when you pay a licensed electrician to do a job. Wiring a garage, or a house, is childs play. Wiring an outlet is even easier. If and when you know what you're doing. It sounds to me like there are a couple of knowledgable sparkies here, and a lot of want to be's. Remember, make a mistake doing a wiring job and it can cost you or a loved one, their life.

Liability is a biotch

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I suppose you do your own plumbing?
Plumbers go through a 5 year 10000 hr apprenticeship to gain their knowledge, and plumbing contractors pay big money for that knowledge as well as for liability insurance.
Incorrect plumbing threatens the well being of your family as well as the family next door or the whole town for that matter, all from a single mistake you can make.



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  #35 (permalink)  
Old 02-13-2010, 06:35 AM
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Well I guess everyone here does their own brake jobs etc on their cars and probably friends and family's cars too. Is everyone ASE certified to do so? I guess also that if you are a aircraft mechanic you can't be trusted to run a circuit in your house. I think everyone here is capable of running a simple circuit or two. Yes a mistake can burn your house down but how about driving down a hill and running into a school bus and killing 25 schoolkids because you didn't torque something down to 25 ftlbs? If I need a plumber or an electrician I will call them if the job is something out of my comfort zone. I imagine there are guys on this website that weld their own frames and stuff too. This isn't a forum for guys playing "Warcraft" on their PC's. I apologize to the guys that do play "Warcraft" who are on this site
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  #36 (permalink)  
Old 02-13-2010, 07:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ratdoggy
Well I guess everyone here does their own brake jobs etc on their cars and probably friends and family's cars too. Is everyone ASE certified to do so? I guess also that if you are a aircraft mechanic you can't be trusted to run a circuit in your house. I think everyone here is capable of running a simple circuit or two. Yes a mistake can burn your house down but how about driving down a hill and running into a school bus and killing 25 schoolkids because you didn't torque something down to 25 ftlbs? If I need a plumber or an electrician I will call them if the job is something out of my comfort zone. I imagine there are guys on this website that weld their own frames and stuff too. This isn't a forum for guys playing "Warcraft" on their PC's. I apologize to the guys that do play "Warcraft" who are on this site
My point exactly.
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  #37 (permalink)  
Old 02-13-2010, 07:56 AM
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I wired my first garage. I lived in the county outside of any city limits. I had the garage built by a contractor and the building permit included electricity. After the building was up, I wired it for 240. Lights, 120 outlets, and 240 outlets for the compressor and welder. Called the inspector out. He went through it thoroughly. Pointed out that I used the grounding rod for the house and I should have used a separate grounding rod at the building. Said the rest was as good as if not better than the jobs he inspected done by the "pros." I gave him assurance I would put in the rod and he signed off on it. Went out immediately after he left, bought the rod, and installed it.

Then we move to a city in the same area. That city would not send out the inspector on a DIY job. They did however offer a test for DIY'ers for single phase home wiring which would get you an inspector out to OK your work.

Then we moved to a city where you have to be licensed. Full blown journeyman electrician. Doesn't stop anyone from doing their own. The permit office spends 80% of their time investigating complaints by neighbors. I personally saw a "licensed" electrician in that city loosen the clamps and pull a live 240 line out of the breaker box making a pretty blue flash until it popped the 100 amp breaker which supplied it. Not sure who would have been liable if the pretty blue flash had been him.

Of the three scenarios, the common sense approach of the county we lived in made me feel the safest when it came to electrical in a house or outbuilding.
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  #38 (permalink)  
Old 02-13-2010, 08:58 AM
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Where we used to live in South East Texas I wired our house when it was being built. The building contractor allowed me so much on the build price for electrical work. Myself and friends from work, all experienced in electrical work wired the entire house in two days. I called the city for an inspection and they sent out an inspector who signed off on it right away. He said he needed to return to perform the final inspection when the house was finished, and did. Where I live now in North Texas I am legally forbidden to do my own electrical work by city code. I do not know if this is a city by city practice or a result of Texas now requiring all electricians to be licensed.

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  #39 (permalink)  
Old 02-13-2010, 10:28 AM
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302 has a good point. I recently purchased a new home and I'm running a 220V air compressor which is must for me to have. The new garage didn't have 220 in it. In fact, there were only two 110V outlets in the entire garage. The electrical panel was on the side of the garage which made it easy to run the connections. I had a little background on electricity but decided to let someone who knew what they were doing install the electical. I learned quite a bit watching him and he said there are several things you need to be aware of for County codes which he stated changes all the time. He ran the 220V plus an additional 110V dedicated line with two additional outlets for $150. What he did in 1 hour would of taken me a half a day and probably not look as clean as he did it. He told me his prices were low because he needs the work and is relying on referrals, because there isn't any electrical work out there.

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  #40 (permalink)  
Old 02-13-2010, 12:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ratdoggy
Well I guess everyone here does their own brake jobs etc on their cars and probably friends and family's cars too. Is everyone ASE certified to do so? I guess also that if you are a aircraft mechanic you can't be trusted to run a circuit in your house. I think everyone here is capable of running a simple circuit or two. Yes a mistake can burn your house down but how about driving down a hill and running into a school bus and killing 25 schoolkids because you didn't torque something down to 25 ftlbs? If I need a plumber or an electrician I will call them if the job is something out of my comfort zone. I imagine there are guys on this website that weld their own frames and stuff too. This isn't a forum for guys playing "Warcraft" on their PC's. I apologize to the guys that do play "Warcraft" who are on this site
Exactly what I was thinkin...on the money!
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  #41 (permalink)  
Old 02-13-2010, 01:42 PM
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I with you guys lol,holly cow,I not only ran my own 220 I wired my whole house got rid of that crap aluminum wire, some electrical Einstein ,with all them degrees on the wall thought was a great idea. I even managed to roof my house but i have enough people I can call to make sure I'm doing it right,only an idiot takes chances with peoples lives, funny thing ,mine is the only one in the neighborhood that didn't get any storm damage a few years back took a week to pick up the neighbors shingles out of my yard.saved 1,500 bucks doing it myself.did a little reading asked a lot of questions ,then did it ,just like rodder is supposed to do.Its not rocket science.how many electritions are nicknamed Sparky anyways?
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  #42 (permalink)  
Old 02-13-2010, 07:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ratdoggy
Well I guess everyone here does their own brake jobs etc on their cars and probably friends and family's cars too. Is everyone ASE certified to do so? I guess also that if you are a aircraft mechanic you can't be trusted to run a circuit in your house. I think everyone here is capable of running a simple circuit or two. Yes a mistake can burn your house down but how about driving down a hill and running into a school bus and killing 25 schoolkids because you didn't torque something down to 25 ftlbs? If I need a plumber or an electrician I will call them if the job is something out of my comfort zone. I imagine there are guys on this website that weld their own frames and stuff too. This isn't a forum for guys playing "Warcraft" on their PC's. I apologize to the guys that do play "Warcraft" who are on this site
You do not need to be ASE certified to be trained to do brakes and it does not assure that it will be done right. All an ASE proves is you can read a book and memorize enough to pass the test. I know "ASE certified techs" who should not be changing oil.

A 50AMP 220 circuit is not a simple circuit, it has a lot of potential problems if it is done improperly or the wrong parts and pieces are used. It is not cut and dry. Most people attempting these have no idea about voltage drop over distance, the difference between aluminum and copper wire sizes and connectors.

Following your theory a trained electrician should know how to do brake jobs.

A bad wiring job can kill you or burn your house down months or years later and this is usually what happens.

The bottom line is if you are not 100% sure what you are doing with something as dangerous as brakes or home electrical you should not touch it. I have also seen several cars burned down by "Mechanics" who dont understand electrical wiring.
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  #43 (permalink)  
Old 02-13-2010, 07:42 PM
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I've seen all that too.Running wires is ez hooking them up right is not...In my case I had done everything myself when I did my house and had a commercial electrition buddy do the breaker box (I watched) but he came over to check my work at every step I made some stupid mistakes even after learning everything I needed.... I even have a pretty extensive electronics back ground that helped a lot but still I made a couple mistakes.If youve never saw an electrition pull a breaker box cover off and add a breaker I wouldnt attempt it.heck I've done it..to wire my compressor at the shop... and it still scares the heck out of me.Even in my old car I'm wiring has a fuse at the battery terminal ..its in the trunk and I've seen what can happen if a battery wire shorts out on its way to the starter,,,the fuse was the first thing that went in.Scary stuff if something goes wrong...Ever see a positive starter wire melt a header from being installed improperly?
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  #44 (permalink)  
Old 02-15-2010, 10:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by redsdad
I wired my first garage....Called the inspector out....and he signed off on it.
I live in a rural/remote area that is somewhat similar. When I built our house a few years ago (2001) the home owner was even allowed to hang their own meter base and wire it to the main box. In fact, the local power company, Wisconsin Public Service, provided DIYers with a very well written and illustrated guide for doing it. WPS would then come out and look over your installation and breaker box to insure it was all up to snuff and then they would install the meter and throw the main power switch out by the road.

I also wired the entire house including running 220 service to my shop, some 150 feet away.

This is now changing, however. Within the past couple years Electrical contractors have used their clout to pass regulations requiring licenced electricians on ALL new construction in Wisconsin. No licensed electrician, no permit. This was done following a successful maneuver by the Plumbing Contractors a few years earlier which took the same action...requiring a licenced plumber to get a building permit.

Mind you, these changes in the permitting process were not made based on public outcry over homeowners blowing themselves up due to poor plumbing or burning themselves down because of poor electrical circuits. They were made exclusively at the insistence of the plumbing and electrical contractors who appear to be the only beneficiaries of the action.

Don't misunderstand. I have nothing against effective building codes to insure the health and safety of building occupants. I support them 100%. But if the DIYer can match the work of a licensed electrician to the point where it will pass inspection, then I see these sorts of rules as nothing more than a government orchestrated monopoly, a mechanism for eliminating true competition, and another major contributor to the high cost of housing.
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  #45 (permalink)  
Old 02-15-2010, 11:03 AM
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You think thats bad? now you need a licence to hang drywall too...And homeowners Augusta need a permit for everything, even a fence and the cost of the permit is based on the cost of materials there is no inspection afterwards but get caught building a fence and they'll make you tear it down...I just got a citation for having my car out in the driveway because its an eye sore but if I get insurance and a plate its ok its no longer an eyesore... Personally I dont like the look of the plate....there is no longer a warning of three days you just go to court and pay court costs and a fine...sounds fishy to me.....No new taxes though....
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