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Old 07-11-2007, 10:15 AM
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220 vrs 110 compressor for paint

I know this has been discussed a lot but I raise a new issue.

If your going to color sand etc does are the advantages of the 220
compressor still overly important? I'd have to have 220 service put in
and would prefer not to. 1st paint project will be a 55 2nd series truck.

I'm planning on mocking the panels up, doing the body work..then removing the panels and painting the the edges and backs. Then reassmbling and painting the cab,fenders & hood.

Thanks,

Keith

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Old 07-11-2007, 10:39 AM
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The real question is not 220 vs 110 it is, or should be, is there enough CFM to make my gun work properly? The drawback to 110 is that they are lower end CFM units but if you have one of the better ones you should be able to match a gun with low air requirements and do what you are wanting to do. Don't pay any attention to HP numbers as that don't usually mean much look at the CFM, you should be able to get by if it is not much less than what the gun requires. The reason you can get by with slightly less is that you will not be spraying 100% of the time. Also don't fall for the bigger/extra tank myth as this can cause problems too, while it is true it will give you a little (usually very little) extra spray time before running out of air it will also take longer to recharge which can be a MAJOR problem if you are standing there waiting and the unfinished clear is flashing off! Better to get a good unit, use it as it is designed and get to know it's limitations well so you can plan ahead and manage your air supply when you start spraying a part.
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Old 07-11-2007, 10:45 AM
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In your shoes, with having to upgrade the power in your shop, I would not spend a bunch of money on a NEW 110 compressor. I would try to grab a 110 used at a swap meet or try the Bargain News.

The 110 will cost more $ to run, and won't keep up with some air tools, but it will get you by (sort of), until you have the $ to upgrade the wiring and be able to get a decent 220 compressor.

So, you most likely will outgrow that 110 sometime soon, so why buy a new 110, then lose a lot of $ on a resale.

Also, a compressor does not like thin wiring on 90PSI restarts, so you can't use extension cords, and the wiring to the shop needs to be able to handle multiple 110 circuits. So if you only have a single 12ga wire feeding the shop, I don't think it will work on a restart, especially if you have lights and fans running.

If your shop is fed with a single 110 12ga wire, you need to look at your main power panel in the house to see if you have room for a new double-pole breaker. If you do, you are talking just the cost of a new breaker, a chunk of wire (3 conductor w/ground if it will feed a mini power panel) plus a 20 or 30amp recepticle, to get enough 220 to do a good compressor. An electrical supplier can determine what gauge wire is needed for a 20 or 30 amp circuit by the distance of where the wire runs to. Plus you can unplug the compressor and run a 220 mig on it.
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Old 07-11-2007, 01:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Slickriffs
I know this has been discussed a lot but I raise a new issue.

If your going to color sand etc does are the advantages of the 220
compressor still overly important? I'd have to have 220 service put in
and would prefer not to. 1st paint project will be a 55 2nd series truck.

I'm planning on mocking the panels up, doing the body work..then removing the panels and painting the the edges and backs. Then reassmbling and painting the cab,fenders & hood.

Thanks,

Keith
Shows mostly on the electric bill, at 110 vac the compressor really eats power. At 220 it run's easier and is a little more gentle at the end of the month.

Why do you mean you'd have to have 220 vac service put in? Most modern buildings have 220 service, three wires from the pole, two 110 hot lines on different phases and a ground Sometimes only 2 hot wires are used. The 180 degree phase difference of each 110 gives 220. Each hot "phase" should connect to a bar inside the breaker box. A 220-240 breaker appropriate to the manufacturer and model of the box will provide a terminal for each phase. Before connecting the breaker cut off power at the main breaker or master switch, different brands will have one the other or both. For a compressor run a #10, 3 wire plus ground cable from the breaker to an outlet by the compressor, a #10 4 wire will also work. The 3 wire plus ground cable will most likely have a red, black, white or green and a bare copper to make 4 total conductors in it. The 4 wire cable will have Red, Black, White, and Green wires. Connect the red to one of the breaker terminals and black to the other. The white or green connects to the common ground where other white, green, or bare copper wires connect. The bare copper wire also connects here. I don't like to connect these universal compressor plugs into 220, because then you have to wire an ordinary looking outlet for 220-240 which can be surprise for someone that doesn't know this and attaches an electric drill to the outlet. So I end these in a "dryer" outlet. The red and black wires connect to the flat angled prong plugs and white or green to the "U" shaped ground. The bare copper or green wire if 4 conductor to the metal back of the outlet. You then cut off the compressor's universal plug and wire it so the color codes match on the outlets prongs. Of course on the compressor you have to rewire the switch or motor wiring to match the manufacturer's instructions for 220-240.

You need to either size the compressor to the needs of the gun in terms of CFM and pressure or size the gun to the compressor's capabilities. Most inexpensive guns including HVLP guns require a lot of CFM and some pretty high pressure, while most inexpensive compressors don't deliver much CFM at high pressure. Obviously somebody found this funny. So an inexpensive oil-less compressor will drive you toward an expensive DeVilbiss or Binks gun rather than something you find at Home Depot or Sears. As inexpensive guns go that don't eat gobs of CFM at high pressures and still put out a decent pattern, the Harbor Freight 90977 is about as good as it gets for around 60 dollars. You can use this for primer and color. But if you prefer a primer only gun then shop for something with a larger tip, the Harbor Freight 47016 has a silly millimeter more dia tip. The bigger tip is also useful when shooting metal flake (not to be confused with metallics) as the larger size and flow volume gives the flakes a better chance to lay out flat on the painted surface. You'll find a bigger tip makes it harder to control thinner color coat paint (including metallics) so if you need to buy only one gun, a smaller tip with heavy primer only adds strokes to your efforts while giving you better control over the thinner color coat paints.

Bogie

Last edited by oldbogie; 07-11-2007 at 02:01 PM. Reason: crummy sentence structure
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Old 07-11-2007, 02:00 PM
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There's lots of garages on older homes that have very little in the way of circuits, way before electric openers.

I was thinking he may have just a single 110 wire that used to only feed 1-2 outlets and 2 overhead bulbs. I just wanted to see if he had enough to make a 110 start ok.
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Old 07-11-2007, 02:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by F&J
There's lots of garages on older homes that have very little in the way of circuits, way before electric openers.

I was thinking he may have just a single 110 wire that used to only feed 1-2 outlets and 2 overhead bulbs. I just wanted to see if he had enough to make a 110 start ok.
That could be, I started with an older home with 40-60 Amp service, you know the fuse box with pennies under them, so I know where that's coming from.

But if it isn't like that I certainly gave him enough information to be like me; dangerous to myself and everyone nearby. Can you say ZAAAAP?

Bogie
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Old 07-11-2007, 04:05 PM
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Thanks everyone..some good basics here about what's import and what isn't.

My shop is my garage. The house was expanded 10 years ago and a mondern electrical system was put in. We have 220 service but I don't have a line running to the garage. We do have some 220 appliances.

I current run all electric tools..so I'm not counting on a compressor to do that. Thanks for the suggestion on the gun Bogie ..Will check it out if I go that way..

Probaly not real expensive to get someone in to run a line..I'm just over anxious today..

Keith

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Old 07-11-2007, 05:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Slickriffs
Thanks everyone..some good basics here about what's import and what isn't.

My shop is my garage. The house was expanded 10 years ago and a mondern electrical system was put in. We have 220 service but I don't have a line running to the garage. We do have some 220 appliances.

I current run all electric tools..so I'm not counting on a compressor to do that. Thanks for the suggestion on the gun Bogie ..Will check it out if I go that way..

Probaly not real expensive to get someone in to run a line..I'm just over anxious today..

Keith
Alright your more than half way there for the sounds of things. If you compressor is one of those 5-6 horse oil-less jobs, you'll find on 110 you can't get too far from a #12 wired outlet. Usually they won't start with any kind of an extension cord between them and the outlet. At 110 they just move huge amounts of amps.

My old house, built in 1910, had a two car garage about 25-30 feet behind. A long time ago somebody ran 110 power out there which supported a couple lights and an outlet. Sound familiar? I kicked out one side and put in a 10 foot section to make space for a shop. When I did that, I pulled the original wires that ran in a tube between the basement and the garage which were cloth and rubber insulated 14 gauge, just to date them. Then I put a secondary main breaker in the house's new 200 amp service, which replaced the 40 or 60 that was original. I ran 3 number 8 gauge insulated copper wires out to the garage to a new breaker panel out there. Then split it off into 110 and 220 circuits for lighting, ordinary power tools, the compressor and welder. Probably not code, but worked problem free for many decades.

Our new(er) house built in 1926 has the garage under it as part of the basement. It also had 60 amp service which got upgraded to 300 amps. So I have plenty of power off the main service box for the shop.

Bogie
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