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  #31 (permalink)  
Old 08-07-2007, 05:02 PM
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'23 T chassis

Hey All-world1....That's the spirit, build your own frame! When it's done and sitting there on jack stands, you are going to get such a rush... Here's a couple of things to consider. It's been a long time since I've seen the CCR plans, so I'm going to stick my neck out here a bit. One thing I would change is the hairpin mounts. The hairpins are much too long. Your front one should mount to the frame rail just below your steering box. I assume your are going to use a 'vair box, right? The rear hairpins should mount to the frame rails about where your front u-joint willend up. Problem here is, they get really short, but will take a lot of stress off the u-joints. I like to use a 4 bar tri-angulated set up here. They are easy to build and they work so well. Also by angling the top bars, you won't need a sway bar if you are using coil overs. For your front crossmember, use a piece of 2" schedule 40 pipe. Sounds odd but it works, takes some of the bulk out of the front end. One more thing, I believe CCR set their kick at 45 degrees. I set mine at 60 degrees and set the body so there is a 1/4" gap between the body and the kick. For max room inside the body, don't cut the body to set over the kick. Lots of info here, hope I didn't bore or confuse you. LOL, Youngster

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  #32 (permalink)  
Old 08-07-2007, 06:01 PM
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Eary 30's Chevy trucks

Quote:
Originally Posted by mickey1031
do any of you have the old T trucks? I'm more interested in those then the T bucket. do they have more room or less? any thoughts on a good kit for them or where to find one that is all steel? I really like the old 32 Chevy truck (I think that is the right year) the one with the head lights not molded in to the fenders and the long running Broad. to me they look like they have a bit more leg room in them then the T bucket and also might be a bit longer but then that might just be the bed . But would love to get any information on them if you could spare some.
Thanks!
These Chevy trucks are neat, but they are a pain to work with. The inner structure is nearly all wood. I'm replacing the wood in a '33 pickup with metal now. I asure you, this is not for the faint of heart. If your interested in this type of truck, I would strongly advise sticking with a 'T' or an 'A'.
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Old 08-08-2007, 05:44 AM
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'23 t chassis

Great info Youngster. Yes, you're right about the hairpins...CCR plans call for over 50" long front hairpins. I was going to purchase the tube axle assembly with brackets and hairpins already attached, I think those hairpins are 36" or less.

Question: with your 60 deg. kick, do you add some length to the frame rails in front or behind the kick to keep the same overall frame length? The CCR frame length is 103".

I'm heading to Fargo ND today to check out some parts suppliers. Probably have more questions for you next week...hope you don't mind.
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  #34 (permalink)  
Old 08-08-2007, 06:07 PM
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'23 T bucket

The problem I have with the 'kit' front ends is the spring and 'shackles' they use. The ones I've seen use a trailer spring and 2 pieces of 1/4" strap with a couple hole punched in them for shackles. Call Mas and order one of their axles, maybe the 3" drop?, and a pair of their standard hairpins. The hairpins come with the clevis' and jam nuts.You can get the frame end tapped for any type of tie rod end or bushed end you want. Next, go to your Speedway catalog and order the 26" reversed eye spring, the 1 3/4" shackles, the spring pivots and the spring behind axle plates. As long as you have your Speedway catalog open, you might pick up a pair of the SS bushed ends with jam nuts. There's a front end that works well and is fully adjustable.I think you'll find the cost to be close to what you would pay for the 'kit'. Now let's move around to the back. You will want to add some length to the top rail behind the kick. How much depends on what wheelbase you want, what sort of springing is to be used, leaf or coil over and which box, the 14" or 20". I like to use the 20" because of the little extra storage you get. You can see why it's nice to have your body, engine, rear end and front end all there. It makes this whole process much, much easier. I've either built or been involved with a lot of T's over the last 40 some years and I can assure you, no two of them are the same. But that's why we build instead of buy isn't it? That's an awful lot to chew on for now. Glad to help anyway I can. Youngster
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Old 08-11-2007, 07:46 AM
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23 t-bucket

That's a lot of great info on the front suspension Youngster. I noticed in last issue of Street Rodder that MAS now has a catalog, ordered one and it should be here this week. For my project, I was thinking leaf for the rear (any pros and cons ?) and an aluminum barrel-type gas tank instead of the pickup bed. Saw a bucket at one of the local car shows and he went with a removable bench seat with storage under...still thinking about that one.

From your last reply, sounds like you bolt your hairpins directly to the frame rails rather than welding mounting brackets.
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  #36 (permalink)  
Old 08-11-2007, 11:15 AM
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'23 T info

When you order your axle from Mas, phone your order in. That way you can talk to the shop Foreman so he knows exactly what you want. The hair pins go to a bracket below the frame. Space is tight on a bucket frame so you don't want to put any more between the rails than you have to. For this reason the 'vair steering box reversed on top of the rails works the best. I assume you are thinking about an 'A' spring for the rear? This works well too. The arch in the spring clears any rear end you want to install. The one draw back is even with every other leaf removed, they ride a little hard. But that is just the nature of the beast. Coilovers will give a better ride, but I personally don't think there is that much difference.After all, your not building a Mustang.The aluminum tank looks great and there again Mas sells a good one. If you go this way, do yourself a favor and lightly sand the tank to smooth out the brushed finish. You don't want to take it all the way to a smooth finish but it is really rough. just knock it down a bit and then shoot some clear over it. It's much easier to keep clean. It's hard to give measurements on the amount of kick to put in your frame because so many things need to be considered. I like to see the rear end set on the same plane as the main rails. To do this, I have 2 pieces of angle iron about 2' long with 2 holes drilled 3" apart for a 3" muffler clamp. Attach these to the bottom of your rear end housing with wheels and tires on it and tack the to the bottom of the side rails just forward of the kick. This gives you your ride height. Now fab your axle spring mounts and gussets, set the pinion angle, tack the spring mounts and gussets, and install the spring. Now take a piece of tubing to use as the rear crossmember and cut it 1/4" shorter than the width of your frame. Next if you are using 2x3 tubing, cut each end of the cross-member back 1 7/8", leaving the back side of the tube at full length. These tabs will box in the end of the side rails and help add some strength to that joint. OK, now fab the spring mount and tack it to the rear cross-member. The rear spring should be mounted so it is 90 degrees from the ground. For that reason don't fab your spring mounts gussets yet. Next measure from the top of the angle iron to the bottom of the rear cross-member. this is the amount of kick up you need. The next step I prefer to do on piece of cardboard. Layout the end of the main rail with the 60 degree cut. Take the amount of your kick and layout another line that far above the top of the side rail. This gives you the length of the piece to cut for the kicks. This piece is also cut with 60 degree angles on both ends. The Mas alum. tank is 10" dia., so you'll want to cut the short top rail at 10". Fab the spring mount gussets and there you have it. Add the hairpins and the rear end is ready to weld up. Remember to tack everything and skip around when you weld it. I hope this is clear enough for you to follow. I'm NOT a tech writer or a typist. Almost forgot, Under the seat is a n excellent place to put your wiring panel and battery access. Glad I can help! Youngster.
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Old 08-12-2007, 08:32 PM
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'23 t-bucket

You are a wealth of knowledge Youngster. I'm just getting started here but printing out all of your great advice for reference.

That's quite a innovative way for setting the kick distance. I don't have a rear end or rear leaf yet but I think that I have access to a friend's GM 10-bolt. Any advice on rear end selection? Still waiting for the MAS catalog but noticed that Speedway has a High-arch rear spring with 5 leaves (raises 6-8").

I'm trying to build on a budget, so some items may have to be purchased little by little. I was hoping to get to the frame because I've got this 26 foot section of 2x3x.180 tubing sitting here and my wife is getting on my case. I'm going with the 103" wheelbase and the 60 degree kick and 10 inch back rail as you suggested. From your experience in frame building, is there a typical kick distance (top of front rail to top of rear rail) that you can recommend without using the angle iron and rear end method that you described? If I stumble on a rear-end soon, I will try your method. Thanks for your valued replies. All-world1
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  #38 (permalink)  
Old 08-13-2007, 05:25 PM
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"23 T bucket

I think we need to back up here for a minute. I'd like to hear about the T you want to build. I guess what I'm saying is, I don't want to dictate your car to you. There are some things that are easier to use and/or work better that others. I really would like to pass along any helpful info that I can, but I need to know what you have in mind first. I hope you and anyone else that reads this understands what I'm getting at. Here are a few questions; budget? Engine/trans? wheels & size of tires? Rear end? nostalgic? '60's/'70's? current style? (whisper)rat? anything special you want to incorporate? interior? and about a 1000 or so more by the time it's on the road.Please DON"T get me wrong, these are all questions I ask anyone who asks me about building a bucket. Here's the big one, If you are going to do let's say 90percent of the work, you are looking at 2 to3 years in the build. If you're ready, let's go!!!!
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Old 08-15-2007, 06:24 AM
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Good questions and I'm glad you have the time to spend...I'm currently out-of-town, just checking your reply. I will be back home on Friday and give you a list of what I expect to use for the build, it will give me chance to give my head a shake add a little more detail for your expertise. Please bear with me for a few more days and thanks.
all-world1
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  #40 (permalink)  
Old 08-15-2007, 03:15 PM
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'23 T bucket

Not a problem....later, Youngster.
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  #41 (permalink)  
Old 08-15-2007, 09:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by all-world1
Huge thanks to both Youngster and tfeverfred for the replies. I've decided to weld up my own frame using the CCR chassis plans because I'm up in Winnipeg, Canada and shipping cost for a steel frame would be thru the roof.

I'm glad to get a good word on MAS bodies since Minneapolis is just a punt away from home. Seems to be a lot of good component suppliers out there - Total Perf, CCR and Speedway.

This fiberglass body thing is new to me, and it would be greatly appreciated if someone can give a few tips on wood re-inforcement.
Here's a link to Don's build on another board. He goes into detail with the wooding of the body. It's a long read,(155 pages), but worth it for someone just heading out.
http://www.clubhotrod.com/forums/sho...oject+underway

Here's a series on frame/suspension by Brian...
http://www.clubhotrod.com/forums/showthread.php?t=28617

Last edited by techinspector1; 08-15-2007 at 09:08 PM.
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  #42 (permalink)  
Old 08-17-2007, 05:06 PM
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'23 T bucket

Thank you for those threads techinspector1. A lot of good reading there and it will take a lot of time to sift thru it all, but good stuff from the little that I've read so far.
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Old 08-17-2007, 05:55 PM
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'23 T bucket

Youngster, I've tried to get my head around some kind of plan and answer a few of your questions. Still haven't received the MAS catalog yet...maybe it will arrive early next week.

Frame - going with 103" wheelbase, your 60 degree kick and 10" long rails behind the kick to accomodate the round fuel tank.

Body - will be ordering the MAS bucket. What do you normally do about floorboards?

Front suspension - MAS tube axle (you recommend 3" drop) with hairpins, spring and hardware from likely from Speedway. From what I've seen in the adds, the MAS axle takes the early Ford spindles, so I guess that's what I will need.

Rear suspension - high arch spring from Speedway (15.5" high not under load, catalog claims to raise 6-8"). You recommended the 4-bar radius rods

Rear end - I was originally thinking chev 10 bolt because I could get one dirt cheap, but not sure if a Ford 8 or 9 inch would be a better bet. I would appreciate your opinion if it's better to keep both front and rear all-Ford or all-GM.

Engine and tranny - I'm currently rebuilding a 283 SB. For the tranny, originally thinking of a Saginaw 3-speed, but because of limited space on the floor, I'm resigned to a TH350 now.

Tires - this question took me by surprise because I never put any thought into it. What I do know is that I won't be going with motorcycle tires in front or monsters in the rear. At this point, the lakes/roadster look is more appealing. When I was big into hotrodding 30 years ago, tires were discribed as G60, L60, etc. Trying to relate the metric sizing to what I envision is giving me high blood pressure. Maybe something like 26-28 inch diameters, obviously wider in the rear...if that is any help to design the kick height.

After all that, would I be safe with a 10" high rear kick?
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  #44 (permalink)  
Old 08-17-2007, 08:54 PM
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'23 T bucket

Now, that's what I'm talking about!! I think I know were you're goin'. Let's start with the frame. I'm thinking a 7" kick will give you the desired stance. Any more than that and you really start to loose space in the cockpit because of the trans hump. Start with 45" for the body, 32" for the sbc, 6" for the radiator, 1" for engine to firewall, 1" for water pump to elec. fan, 2" for the front cross member and 2" for the fudge factor, gives us 98" for the front rails. At this point you should be some where around a 102" to 103" wheel base. You can use either 5/8" or 3/4" plywood for the floor. I like to cover the plywood top and bottom with resin so all you need here is a piece without knots or voids. Underlayment works well for this. The Ford spindles are the way to go. The Chevy spindles are good too, but the cost of the bearings is high. The Speedway rear spring will also work well. Here's a thought though, there are a lot of serviceable model 'A' rear springs out there. With the modified theme in mind, a set of hair pins on the back would look more traditional. The 8" Ford rear end has a nice clean look. The 10 bolt has always seemed a little too busy for my taste. Without a pu box on the back, you want to keep this area as uncluttered as you can. Look for an 8" out of a mid '70's Maverick. The tread width is just right to go with the 46" front axle. Sbc? Good choice. 350th is OK, but you are building a light car, so you might not need the extra gear. the powerglide(don't laugh yet) is smaller and a damn tough unit. Now for rims and tires. Again, with the modified in mind, how's 15" solids with 165sr15's up front(about 27" tall) and 235r15's out back(about 29" tall) with '40 caps and rings. Sorry but those are a personal favorite. OK, let's talk about searching for parts. The best source I've found are the hot rodders that live around you. It always amazes me how things just seem to pop up right here in town. Of course this site will help too. And the bay has reduced the search on my present project down to 6 months instead of a couple of years. Just my $.02. Send me a PM before you order your axle. I might be able to help out there. More questions? OK!!! Youngster.
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Old 08-17-2007, 09:40 PM
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23 T-bucket

That's an excellent reply Youngster, gives me some great ideas and numbers to work with as a start. I actually have an old PowerGlide w/o torque converter sitting in my garage but it's the old cast iron type ('61) and you need a fork lift to move it. The SBC and PG were to be used on a '54 Pontiac project I was going to start, but I just turned 50 and said to myself "do I want to spend the next 5 years grinding rust or start from scratch on a bucket I've always wanted?" The '54 is going up for sale and should fetch enough to buy the MAS body, tube axle assembly and a few more goodies.
I hope to dive into this after Labor Day and will definitely keep you in the loop. Anything else you can think of would be appreciated.

all-world1
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