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  #106 (permalink)  
Old 10-08-2007, 06:46 PM
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Spirit Industries Frame Dimensions

Here's a drawing of a Spirit Industries frame.
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  #107 (permalink)  
Old 10-08-2007, 07:34 PM
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'23 T bucket ?

SLR_65.....I don't know if you've ever driven a motorcycle or not. If you have, just imagine one with 4 wheels and 2 times as much power or better.

The 305 is actually a good choice. They are plentifully, inexpensive, and are already set up for today's fuel. You stand a good chance of finding one that you could just dress, tune and go. Has it got enough power to cause 'white knuckles'? Hell yah!!!! Grunt....grunt.....grunt!!!!!!!

Youngster
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  #108 (permalink)  
Old 10-08-2007, 08:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Youngster
SLR_65.....I don't know if you've ever driven a motorcycle or not. If you have, just imagine one with 4 wheels and 2 times as much power or better.

The 305 is actually a good choice. They are plentifully, inexpensive, and are already set up for today's fuel. You stand a good chance of finding one that you could just dress, tune and go. Has it got enough power to cause 'white knuckles'? Hell yah!!!! Grunt....grunt.....grunt!!!!!!!

Youngster
Hey! That sounds GREAT!
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  #109 (permalink)  
Old 10-08-2007, 09:22 PM
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I like the pictures and comments this guy did on this page, but it looks to me like the front of the frame sticks out too far in the finished product?

http://members.tripod.com/~Jackak10/tbucket.html
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  #110 (permalink)  
Old 10-10-2007, 01:05 AM
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Steering boxes

I located and borrowed back Chester's book and I found the section about making the steering box mount kinda interesting . . . he uses a 1956 or earlier Ford box. He prefers the boxes from old Ford school buses and large trucks because they are six turns lock to lock instead of the usual five so he says it feels more like power steering. He says if you can't find an early Ford box then you can use any GM non-power unit by just turning the pitman arm upside down so it turns in the right direction.

That's interesting . . . the book was written in 1990 but he's making no reference to the more standard Corvair or Vega boxes?

Is anyone else using these older Ford boxes? Can anyone comment on the pros and cons of the different box choices?

Thanks!

Steve
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Old 10-10-2007, 04:36 PM
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Sources of Model T bucket Plans (these are real world, cut & weld type plans, not credit card order forms!). Hope this helps someone who wants to build a bucket...

1A. HOW TO BUILD A T BUCKET FOR UNDER $3000 by Chester Greenhalgh,
1986.

1B. HOW TO BUILD A T BUCKET ON A BUDGET by Chester Greenhalgh, Dec. 1
1990, Motorbooks International, ISBN-10: 087938395X, ISBN-13:
978087938395. I assume this is the same as “For Under $3000”.

The above 2 are the BEST single source of build info IMHO.

2. CALIFORNIA CUSTOM ROADSTERS / CCR PLANS by Bill Keifer still for sale in the back of magazines and on the web.

3. Total Performance sells a spiral bound book of plans that have "exact" measurements for all components for like $25…..BUT….(maybe they have e-version?)

“I bought the TP Manual looks great. But I can't find the length for the main frame rails.”

“....the main frame length is 90 1/8". We realized this dimension was missing AFTER we had about 100,000 of these printed... Brian @ Total Performance”....there are other revisions as well...

4. Car Craft Magazine: complete series of plans and text, ie plans to weld frame, motor mounts, etc

A. “1964 series” – early (V-8) Ford front & rear axles, transverse springs, 3 speed Ford V-8 crashbox trans, Chevy SB

Nov ‘64 Part 1
Dec ‘64 Part 2
Jan ’65 Part 3
Feb ’65 Part 4
Mar ’65 Part 5
April ’65 Part 6
May ’65 Part 7
June ’65 Part 8
July '65 Part 9 T Project feature report, price list of parts

B. “1967 series” – Ford Econoline front axle, coil springs, Chevy SB / 4 speed / rear axle, by Dick Scritchfield
June ’67 Part 1
July ’67 Part 2
Aug ’67 Part 3
Sept ’67 Part 4
Oct ’67 Part 5
Nov ’67 Part 6
Dec ’67 Part 7
Jan ’68 Part 8
Feb ’68 Feature on completed car

HOT ROD YEARBOOK No. 13 (1973) The 1967 Series was “99% reprinted exactly as it was written”, and also printed in book form in its entirety.

5. ROD & CUSTOM MAG January 1974
Has lots of articles on build a T-Bucket.
Frame building
Wooding a f/glass Body
Fitting Windshield posts

6. 1978 Rod Action magazine series on full-fendered 1927 T Touring

January Part 1 T Frame plans
February Part 2 T front end
March Part 3 T engine (Ford small block)
April Part 4 T misc frame components
May Part 5 Jag rearend
June Part 6 conventional rearend
July Part 7 painting frame
Sept. Part 8 steering

7. HOW TO BUILD GENE SCOTT’S BOSS-T by Gene Scott, 1973

A nice catalog with build information included. Lots of nice clear installation pictures. Also, there are body and frame drawings with dimensions (even for a tube frame).

Last edited by GuyW; 10-11-2007 at 01:27 AM.
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  #112 (permalink)  
Old 10-10-2007, 06:07 PM
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Hi Guys,

OK, Chester didn't mention the Corvair or Vega boxes in the frame chapter but later in the front end chapter he did - he just commented that they are so popular that they are almost impossible to find. He had another interesting comment though - he said the Ford buses that he likes the steering boxes out of are commonly used by salvage yards as storage sheds . . . I've seen that done around here too!

The Speedway Motors catalog gave me some insight too, in one of their builder's tips they say:
"Traditional Steering; Only works in these combinations: 4-bar setup with '68 to '73 Mustang box OR Split wishbone or hairpin radius rods with reversed Corvair or '48 to '56 Ford pickup steering box. NO VEGA BOX"

and in another builder's tip they say:
"Cross Steering: Cross steering is the preferred method for nearly all cross sping/beam axle suspension systems. Ford used it themselves from 1935 on. This system suffers far less bump steer, gives a more comfortable steering column angle, frees up much needed foot pedal / bellhousing room and cleans up the appearance of the chassis in a side view (very important on an open wheel car). The Vega steering box is the only one to consider for "T"-34 Fords. but 1935-48 cars can use the Vega or Saginaw box (which gives the option of power steering for these cars"

Looking at Chester's plans, he's using the traditional steering setup . . . comments, pros/cons, etc. anyone?

Steve
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  #113 (permalink)  
Old 10-10-2007, 06:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GuyW
Sources of Model T bucket Plans (these are real world, cut & weld type plans, not credit card order forms!). Hope this helps someone who wants to build a bucket...

1A. HOW TO BUILD A T BUCKET FOR UNDER $3000 by Chester Greenhalgh,
1986.
<snip>
Wow! Great, thanks!

Reference 1A . . . was that a published book, magazine article, or ???

Thanks!

Steve
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  #114 (permalink)  
Old 10-10-2007, 06:32 PM
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Steve: 1A is Chester's first book (which I have). 1B I haven't seen, but I think it's 1A again.

Annnd....I have seen/heard of Vega steering boxes used in a "traditional" front-back draglink setup...don't have any links to give you on that tho...
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  #115 (permalink)  
Old 10-10-2007, 08:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GuyW
Steve: 1A is Chester's first book (which I have). 1B I haven't seen, but I think it's 1A again.
Was it professionally published (if so, by who?)?

Just curious, I've just never seen it referenced.

I'm going through a well worn copy of it right now. Just read the frame chapter, I'm going to try and "build" the frame on my CAD program for giggles in the next couple days as that usually helps me visualize things a bit better.

It's a good book but I find some things kinda contradictory . . . the book basically follows the build up of a car and the emphasis is on the low buck budget approach, but the cover of the 1990 Motor Books International published book shows a different bucket - one that's got lots of chrome and a built, blown engine it it! Just seems contradictory to me! Another one - again, he emphasizes the low buck, do it yourself approach but then the frame plan is for a frame that tapers from 30 inches in the back to 25 in the front . . . if you are trying to present simple, cheap, and easy methods then I'd think a square frame would fit better with those goals . . . unless a tapered frame gives some major benefit, but if it does he doesn't say what it is in the book and since most of the T-Bucket kit manufacturers use square frames I don't think there really is (am I wrong?).

I also gotta laugh at the "rumble seat" box too . . . yeah, right! Set your kids on top of the gas tank with a hinged lid beating them in the back of the head! T-Buckets always attract attention, but that's not the type I think you want!

It's still a good book though and I'm enjoying it immensely.

TTYL,

Steve
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  #116 (permalink)  
Old 10-10-2007, 09:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SLR_65
Was it professionally published (if so, by who?)?

...the book basically follows the build up of a car and the emphasis is on the low buck budget approach, but the cover of the 1990 Motor Books International published book shows a different bucket - one that's got lots of chrome and a built, blown engine i(n) it!

...I also gotta laugh at the "rumble seat" box too . . . yeah, right! Set your kids on top of the gas tank with a hinged lid beating them in the back of the head!
I bought my copy in 1986, directly from Chester in FL IIRC, from an ad in a street rod magazine. I think it was self-published (it's not here where I am). It featured a mostly painted car with home-brew graphics and a junkyard Chevy SB, and misc ideas on adding chrome flash by using existing non-car stuff to cover parts...

The 1990 Motorbooks version seems like a rework, with additional stuff added to make it more marketable ("rumbleseat?" and fancy car on cover), and undoubtedly with some notable deletions (ummm, like "turning" your disc rotors with a body grinder...).

I should be receiving a copy of the 1990 book later this week, and I can compare the 2. For a lowbucks guy, my guess is that the 1986 version has more low-buck tips...
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  #117 (permalink)  
Old 10-10-2007, 09:50 PM
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'23 T bucket ?

Steve.... As far as steering boxes go, you are going to find alot of people have their favorites. Mine happens to be the 'vair, because of it's size and adaptability, but mostly because the early ones,'60 thru '64 are alum. and polish up sooooo nice.

I also like the tapered side rails. It is really not that hard to do. The thing that makes one bucket stand out from the rest is little details. Anything you can do, like little extras in detailing, will pay back when you decide to sell the ol' horse. A little extra time spent grinding the edges of brackets or rounding a square corner will get noticed by the discerning eye. Total Performance builds fantastic T's, but I;ve seen a home built sitting right next to one get the lions share of attention because of the detail the builder put into it. A clean and simple car is a sight to behold.

Another magazine series that hasn't been mentioned is the one Popular Hotrodding did in the early '70's. The builder was Don Kirby of Challenger Equipment co. in Azusa, Cal. The car was a prototype of a bucket that he would build for customers. In '76, Argus Publishing put out a magazine called, of all things, "How to build a Street Rod", containing the whole T bucket series. It was a very well written build. There is a lot of good info here if you can find one of these.

Youngster
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  #118 (permalink)  
Old 10-10-2007, 09:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GuyW
I bought my copy in 1986, directly from Chester in FL IIRC, from an ad in a street rod magazine. I think it was self-published (it's not here where I am). It featured a mostly painted car with home-brew graphics and a junkyard Chevy SB, and misc ideas on adding chrome flash by using existing non-car stuff to cover parts...

The 1990 Motorbooks version seems like a rework, with additional stuff added to make it more marketable ("rumbleseat?" and fancy car on cover), and undoubtedly with some notable deletions (ummm, like "turning" your disc rotors with a body grinder...).

I should be receiving a copy of the 1990 book later this week, and I can compare the 2. For a lowbucks guy, my guess is that the 1986 version has more low-buck tips...
I read the book a while back and I'm just now re-reading it and I've just gotten through the frame chapter right now, but . . . I did notice that one of the pictures later in the book (1990 version) DOES show him turning his rotos with a body grinder!

If I recall correctly he also mentioned using rod to make the winshield support rods and that he covered them with air conditioning tape to give them a chrome effect . . . the '86 version has even more low buck tips?

All in all I think it's a good book and I'm sure I'll be utilizing a lot of his approaches.

TTYL,

Steve
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  #119 (permalink)  
Old 10-10-2007, 09:55 PM
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VEGA steering box in traditional config:






Last edited by GuyW; 10-10-2007 at 10:38 PM.
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  #120 (permalink)  
Old 10-10-2007, 10:23 PM
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'23 T bucket ?

The only advantage to mounting the 'vair box under the frame is you don't have to reverse it. The disadvantage is that it's hanging down there where it is vulnerable the road debre. By mounting it on top of the frame, the column is higher on the firewall giving you a little more room around the brake pedal. It;s also much easier to get your box mounted directly above the radius rod mount.

Youngster
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