23 T Bucket ? - Page 9 - Hot Rod Forum : Hotrodders Bulletin Board
Hotrodders.com -- Hot Rod Forum



Register FAQ Search Today's Posts Unanswered Posts Auto Escrow Insurance Auto Loans
Hot Rod Forum : Hotrodders Bulletin Board > Tech Help> General Rodding Tech
User Name
Password
lost password?   |   register now

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
  #121 (permalink)  
Old 10-10-2007, 09:28 PM
Registered User
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Escondido, CA
Posts: 18
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Youngster

... Another magazine series that hasn't been mentioned is the one Popular Hotrodding did in the early '70's. The builder was Don Kirby of Challenger Equipment co. in Azusa, Cal. The car was a prototype of a bucket that he would build for customers. In '76, Argus Publishing put out a magazine called, of all things, "How to build a Street Rod", containing the whole T bucket series. It was a very well written build. There is a lot of good info here if you can find one of these.

Youngster
Ooops, yes:

"How to Build a Street Rod" (magazine) by Steve Kelley, 1976 Argus Publications

“Popular Hot Rodding magazine series, early '70's. The builder was Don Kirby of Challenger Equipment co. in Azusa, Cal. The car was a prototype of a bucket that he would build for customers.”

Probably Sept. ’73 Part 1 T bucket (I'm missing this one...)
Oct. ’73 Part 2 T bucket
Dec. ’73 Part 3 T bucket
?? wrapup on Project T?

    Advertisement
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
  #122 (permalink)  
Old 10-10-2007, 09:37 PM
Registered User
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Escondido, CA
Posts: 18
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by SLR_65
...the '86 version has even more low buck tips?

All in all I think it's a good book and I'm sure I'll be utilizing a lot of his approaches.
I like his concept of building a simple, strong car for low bucks....flash can always be added later, but how many T projects die after the builder blew his build budget on a built-up motor, wheels, chrome goodies, etc., but then can't finish the build?? Patience pays off in a finished car...

Low buck is also better (in some locales) when licensing (and attendent taxing) takes place. Paying "use tax" (Peeples Republik of Kalyphornya) on stuff that you already paid sales tax on pisses me off...
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #123 (permalink)  
Old 10-10-2007, 10:33 PM
Registered User
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Nebraska
Posts: 149
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by GuyW
I like his concept of building a simple, strong car for low bucks....flash can always be added later, but how many T projects die after the builder blew his build budget on a built-up motor, wheels, chrome goodies, etc., but then can't finish the build?? Patience pays off in a finished car...

Low buck is also better (in some locales) when licensing (and attendent taxing) takes place. Paying "use tax" (Peeples Republik of Kalyphornya) on stuff that you already paid sales tax on pisses me off...
Yep, I kinda like the "rough", room for improvement look myself!

Chester seems to rely heavily on scrounging and unfortunately that may have been viable when he wrote the book and in his area, but around here these days high steel prices have the yards crushing lots of cars - especailly older ones they haven't sold any parts off of in a long time so finding '40s, '50s, and 60s vehicles is hard - especially relatively unpopular models. Beyond that, the really good cars are getting bought up by professional scroungers . . . our local yard said that a place called "Oklahoma Oldies" came and bought most of their older stock, and they've had a couple other outfits coming around lately looking for the older classics too.

There's still a few gems though . . . I did run across a couple Corvairs and stuff. And of course FleaBay is always there. Craig's list looks interesting too.

One great tip Chester had in the preface was that part of the key to a low buck rod was buying a good donor car and I think he's right. He says that what it is doesn't matter - car, truck, van, etc.. I think a mid-70s mid-size like a Monte Carlo, Nova (I'd think a four door would go cheap enough), etc. would be a great choice. You'd get the engine, trans, rear end plus the brakes if it were a mid size car (he said in the brake chapter that the truck and van brakes were too big). He uses a pre-made fiberglass transmission tunnel, which I haven't seen advertised (but haven't looked for too hard either), but I think I'd just cut that out of the donor vehicle too and again a mid-size car would probably be best for that. And the little things . . . like a fuse box and wiring harness - it's hard to find small amounts of wire in odd colors so re-using the harness may be beneficial.

Yeah, I can see a donor vehicle being a real treasure! I'd have to plan it out well though - we have a junk vehicle ordinance here so I'd only have a couple weeks to strip it and get rid of the hulk (and I'm sure after it's gone I'll think of a hundred more things I shouldda kept off of it!).

TTYL,

Steve
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #124 (permalink)  
Old 10-11-2007, 03:38 PM
Youngster's Avatar
Registered User
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Minnesota
Posts: 361
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
'23 T bucket ?

I'd like to clear something up here. There is a real difference between a "cheap" car and a "lowbuck" car.

IMO, a cheap car is one that is more or less built with what ever comes along that will fill the bill. Not the way I would recommend doing a build.

A lowbuck car is one that is carefully engineered to be safe along with being built with parts that work well together.

As far as appearance goes, proportions need to be right. Cartoonish cars get attention, but would you really want to own one? Speaking of owning one, if you look at the prices for used buckets, they have a wide range. Most cheap cars will be at the low end of the scale. Where as a lowbuck car will command a better return on your $$$.

In short you want to build a car that has the "look". That's what is going to get your car the respect and the value all your hard work deserves.

Youngster
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #125 (permalink)  
Old 10-11-2007, 05:18 PM
Registered User
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Nebraska
Posts: 149
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Hi Youngster,

I agree - I'm not much into "cheap" either as "cheap" usually goes along with low quality.

I AM into low buck though . . . I think most of us are if we're honest.

I get a kick out of some of Chester's stuff - using a/c tape to give a chrome like finish . . . that makes me chuckle. In all honesty I doubt that would hold up well, though I may be wrong. It shouldn't affect safety though, so who am I to poo-poo the idea if someone wants to do it. I think I'd forgoe it and just paint it and save up to buy chrome ones when I could. I got no problem with fabricating our own rods rather than buying them though.

I can't remember if it was in his book or on one of the discussion boards, but the gist of it was that do whatever you can to get the car rolling and running (safely and legally of course!) and then go back and improve it as you have the time and money. It seems the #1 problem with these cars is that people spend a ton of money on pretty parts and then run out of money and the project isn't done. They lose interest and the project gets shelved or sold, all in all a bad experience which is a shame as this should be a fun and exciting thing to do.

This is why I'm kinda embracing Chester's approaches though in the long run it'll probably be far from "low buck" . . . the problem with this approach is that I'll probably end up doing things twice. Like the windshield rods . . . I'll probably make a set and paint them -> I'll go through the expense of buying the materials, then the time and effort of farbricating them into usable pieces and in the end I'll probably end up taking them off and replacing them with pretty chrome ones when I have some extra cash - it probably would be cheaper to just buy the pretty ones to start with. But if you figure up all those little touches the initial price gets high so then if I want to wait and save up to get them as I'm building it'll probably delay the completion of the build and that's time I could've been riding around and enjoying a little less pretty roadster . . . there is no free lunch I guess!

I personally think I will enjoy the low intial buck approach and I actually kind of like the idea of the finished ride leaving some room for improvement. Rather than build a rod and then just drive it I'll have the fun of being able to continue tinkering on it and improving it which I think will be as much fun as actually riding around in it.

Right now I'm in the information gathering stage -> I want to make sure that I get the most return on my investment (both time and money). If a four bar setup is a better idea for the front suspension then I'd like to use one. It may use painted bars and brackets that I fabricated rather than pretty stainless bars and laser cut brackets though. If cross steering gives less bump steer than traditional steering then I may want to go that way too. It may use a salvaged steering box and brackets I again cut and painted rather than a pretty new box with laser cut chrome brackets though. I want the car safe and I want as good of a handling vehicle as is possible, keeping in mind that it's a model T at heart of course. Appearance is second - I DO want the right look - I want the proportions right, the paint scheme to compliment the lines, etc.. It's not going to be a museum piece or trailer queen though so I'm not going to save up for a high buck professional paint job - it'll probably get shot in a relatives barn (after I construct a make shift booth in it). It may not have a ton of billet pieces on it or anything like that either - just things cleaned up and tastefully painted.

Though I probably should be, I'm not really concerned with the value of the finished product at all . . . I'm content to write the whole thing off as a loss! I'm looking at it more as entertainment than anything - I'm not much for traveling or long trips so I figure rather than blow money on a trip that once it's taken it's gone I'd rather stay home and build my rod and then have it to enjoy for a long time to come (and maybe later take to some local car shows and stuff . . . heck, I might even take the wife with me! )

It'll probably never win any awards, make any magazine covers, or anything like that but I don't really care . . . it's something different and unusual that I had a great time doing, will have fun using, and will be able to continue improving and enjoying for a long time . . . at least that's the goal!

I appreciate yours, and everyone here on hotrodders.com, help in attaining my goals . . . it's much appreciated!

TTYL,

Steve
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #126 (permalink)  
Old 10-11-2007, 05:28 PM
Registered User
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Nebraska
Posts: 149
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Youngster
As far as appearance goes, proportions need to be right. Cartoonish cars get attention, but would you really want to own one?
Youngster
You got that right! We recently took a tour of Bill Smith's (Speedway Motors) Museum of Speed and in there they have a full size, working replica of the "Red Baron" toy car (kind of an interesting story, most models start as reproductions of actual cars but this one went the other way - they came out with a model and then a couple actual cars were later made)

Everyone, the kids especially, said "Whoa!" when they saw it and it really gathered a lot of attention and picturing taking! Talking with the tour guide though he said that it was just a show piece, it does run but it's just unbearable to drive . . . it's hard to get into, uncomfortable once you are in, hard to see when you're driving, the steering wheel angle is all wrong, on and on. It may look neat but it's not really feasible at all.

I have pics of the actual car but don't have them handy - here's a pic of the model though.

TTYL,

Steve
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	red baron.jpg
Views:	131
Size:	41.6 KB
ID:	24837  
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #127 (permalink)  
Old 10-11-2007, 05:59 PM
home brew's Avatar
Hotrodders.com Moderator
 
Last wiki edit: Body and exterior tips Last photo:
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Pense, Sk, Canada
Age: 68
Posts: 7,050
Wiki Edits: 1

Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by SLR_65
......It'll probably never win any awards, make any magazine covers, or anything like that but I don't really care . . . it's something different and unusual that I had a great time doing, will have fun using, and will be able to continue improving and enjoying for a long time . . . at least that's the goal!

Steve
That is a great approach to building a hot rod!!

Here are some pics of a steel T bucket that was built "low buck" and simple. Minimal chrome, flat paint and lots of tiny details that don't cost much. He sure is having fun!!





Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #128 (permalink)  
Old 10-11-2007, 06:02 PM
Youngster's Avatar
Registered User
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Minnesota
Posts: 361
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
'23 T bucket ?

I'm not going to sit here and rip on Chester's book. Although it is laughable, it just proves that you can learn something from the most unexpected sources. There are some usefull things in it. The first time I saw it, I happened to open it to the page where he was dressing a disc brake rotor with a body sander. It was not a good impression. then I read the part about his using a stick welder and the comment on the prima donna's with a wire feed welder. At that point, I closed the book and walked away chuckling to myself.

Steve ...I like your out look towards your project. just don't sell yourself or your car short. Take your time and pay attention to the details and above all, have fun with it during and after the build.

Youngster
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #129 (permalink)  
Old 10-11-2007, 06:15 PM
Registered User
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Nebraska
Posts: 149
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
That IS a fun looking project!

I especially like the smiling front axle and the V8 symbol on the spring bracket!

Thanks for the pics!!!
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #130 (permalink)  
Old 10-11-2007, 06:37 PM
Registered User
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Nebraska
Posts: 149
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Hi Youngster,

I don't mean to sound like I'm ripping on Chester's book either, I'm not. I appreciate what he's done . . . some of the stuff kinda makes me chuckle, but from the personality that shows through the writing in his book I don't think Chester would take too much offense and would probably be glad people are still reading and learning from what he shared.

I saw the brake rotor pic, but I haven't found the accompanying text yet - I just haven't gotten that far in the book yet. Again, I kinda chuckled at it . . .

The welder comment I kinda agreed with . . . basically he said not to take your buddies word for it that he's a good welder - you'd be better off having him teach YOU how to weld and doing it yourself and I kind of agree with that, if for no other reason than I just enjoy doing things myself. I take his comments with a grain of salt though as I have several friends who ARE good welders -> we have several factories in town and they work in them welding for a living. A couple also work in local fabrication and repair shops. I just gotta believe that since they do it every day they are probably better than I am so it probably wouldn't be a bad idea for me to have a buddy do the welding . . . but I wont, 'cause I wanna do it!

I am trying to pay attention to details on my project . . . in fact my wife and kids tell me I do that too much! I tend to research things to death! In this case I think it's warranted though, I really want the best base vehicle I can to start with so I want the frame and suspension right the first time. Beyond that I'm really looking forward to some garage time. I like to work on cars but I hate working on the one you gotta drive to work tomorrow! I have an old truck for a project but I've decided that it's not really going to be a large project - I'll get it mechanically sound and may even pretty up the appearance a bit, but I think the bulk of my efforts are going to go towards a T . . . I've wanted one since I read an article in a magazine years ago and bought a set of CCR plans. Things happen - I got older, went to college, went in the service, got married, had kids, etc.. Now I'm older, own my house, have a garage, etc. so I want to get back to wrenching for a pass time and I want something basic and fun . . . the T just jumped out at me again and after wanting one for 20+ years I'm thinking it's just time!

Take Care,

Steve
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #131 (permalink)  
Old 10-11-2007, 11:48 PM
Registered User
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Nebraska
Posts: 149
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Youngster
<snip>The rear hairpins should mount to the frame rails about where your front u-joint willend up. Problem here is, they get really short, but will take a lot of stress off the u-joints. I like to use a 4 bar tri-angulated set up here. They are easy to build and they work so well. Also by angling the top bars, you won't need a sway bar if you are using coil overs. <snip>
Hi Youngster, is this pic the triangulated rear end setup you are referring to?
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	4bartriangle.jpg
Views:	162
Size:	20.9 KB
ID:	24840  
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #132 (permalink)  
Old 10-12-2007, 12:12 AM
Registered User
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Nebraska
Posts: 149
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
I was looking for MAS racing to look at their front axles and found they didn't have a web site yet . . . then I ran across a post on another forum that said they were just now getting one up (the post was from this month) and sure enough they are!

Check:
http://www.masracing.biz/
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #133 (permalink)  
Old 10-12-2007, 11:13 AM
Youngster's Avatar
Registered User
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Minnesota
Posts: 361
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
'23 T bucket ?

Steve...The 4 bar set picture is a good example. It is fully adjustable which makes it a good match for the front suspension with hairpins and spring mount pivots.

Just a note on steering box location. The post by ' Home Brew ', #127, notice the Corvair box and how it's mounted. This is an excellent visual for this installation.

I just piked up the Jan., '08 issue of Rodz. In it is the best article on reversing a Corvair box that I've seen to date. Good reference material!

Youngster
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #134 (permalink)  
Old 10-12-2007, 12:47 PM
Youngster's Avatar
Registered User
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Minnesota
Posts: 361
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
'23 T bucket ?

Here's some pics of a '91 build;
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	scan0001.jpg
Views:	194
Size:	14.3 KB
ID:	24852   Click image for larger version

Name:	scan0003.jpg
Views:	153
Size:	14.5 KB
ID:	24853   Click image for larger version

Name:	scan0006.jpg
Views:	127
Size:	16.3 KB
ID:	24854   Click image for larger version

Name:	scan0004.jpg
Views:	103
Size:	15.6 KB
ID:	24855   Click image for larger version

Name:	scan0005.jpg
Views:	146
Size:	15.9 KB
ID:	24856  

Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #135 (permalink)  
Old 10-12-2007, 05:16 PM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Manitoba
Posts: 36
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
23 T Bucket?

Good pics youngster, I noticed the wooding-the-body pic. I'll eventually need your help with that one....but that's way down the road.

thanks for the heads-up on the corvair box reversal magazine article. Are these easier to find than vega boxes? I haven't scoured the wrecking yards for these yet.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

Recent General Rodding Tech posts with photos

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now

In order to be able to post messages on the Hot Rod Forum : Hotrodders Bulletin Board forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name (usually not your first and last name), your email address and other required details in the form below.
User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.
Password:
Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.
Email Address:

Log-in

Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On



All times are GMT -6. The time now is 04:58 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0 PL2
Copyright Hotrodders.com 1999 - 2012. All Rights Reserved.