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  #16 (permalink)  
Old 08-10-2012, 11:05 AM
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Originally Posted by alsadler View Post
That is the way it was origionally but it did not want to even idle. Had to drive with two feet. We did set it to six and 12 and it did start but only once then it stalled and we could not get it started. does not seem to be timed right eather way, but tommorrow is another day.
Sorry when I first responded was just as we blew up a Porsche on the dyno. Things went from a quiet Starbucks sipping kind of day to where the F did I put the bottle of Jack Daniels.

Setting up the SBC when the marks are facing each other then both number 1 and 6 are at TDC but 1 is finishing exhaust and 6 is ready to fire. If you know this you just drop the distributor in with the rotor aligned to fire number 6. This doesn't change where the vacuum advance can is aimed. The crankshaft and camshaft will be aligned so there should be no problem with the valves hitting pistons unless you've got so much lift at the valve that they can't miss the pistons but this is a different issue.

If the engine is left in the position with the timing gear pip marks facing each other if the distributor is installed with the rotor aligned to number 1 the timing is 180 degrees out of phase. It may well start from here but will be weak, wanting to stall, will take revving to keep it going and will probably backfire with some significant force through the carb.

If you're timed to number one it may still prove problematic to get running especially with a larger cam I really can't say a whole lot about this, it just takes fiddling with the thing to finally get it settled in.

As a side note there have been miss marked gears over the years, itís always a good idea to at least rotate the engine a couple times to be sure the valve events and piston position and distributor/rotor positions occur where they should. Setting up with a degree wheel is the best way, but is probably overkill for engines that are not going racing, still it's darn definitive in locating where and when things are happening.

Bogie

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  #17 (permalink)  
Old 08-10-2012, 12:59 PM
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I know there is no way when the dots are together no 1 is not at top dead center because |I can feel the valves touching the top when |I try to line up the marks. It might just be that I am 180 degrees out. Have to try again.
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  #18 (permalink)  
Old 08-10-2012, 01:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alsadler View Post
I know there is no way when the dots are together no 1 is not at top dead center because |I can feel the valves touching the top when |I try to line up the marks. It might just be that I am 180 degrees out. Have to try again.
What you need to look for is that when the dots face each other, if you pull the crankshaft in the direction of rotation (clockwise when standing ahead of the timing case) number one should be at TDC and transitioning from exhaust to intake. So with little movement of the crank you should see the intake valve open as the piston desends. Also check number 6 at this same time, it should be on the power stroke with the valves closed, but the exhaust will start to open before Bottom Dead Center is reached.

If infact the pip marks when facing each other actually has number 1 ready to fire then it will be on the power stroke and 6 will be intaking.

If none of this is happening then the cam and crank are not coordinated and you've got other problems.

These days with so much stuff coming from parts unknown it is not uncommon anymore to find gears, cams, and cranks that are not indexed correctly so be prepared for totally off the wall results, it does happen.

Bogie
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Old 08-10-2012, 01:51 PM
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Great reply Boogie and very good point. Logic oftern has little to do with it.

Thanks,

Wayne
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Old 08-10-2012, 04:00 PM
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brilliant replies logged and noted. and from my read, either way you drop in the distributor, aint gonna make valves hit or not hit. u got other issues. good luck on that, an pls report back w/ what u found. Rotating the motor by hand after the install is really the only way to go any more in my world, where i build like one motor a decade. cheap insurance.
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Old 08-11-2012, 12:11 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alsadler View Post
That is the way it was origionally but it did not want to even idle. Had to drive with two feet. We did set it to six and 12 and it did start but only once then it stalled and we could not get it started. does not seem to be timed right eather way, but tommorrow is another day.
Another very common mistake is the plug wires for #5 and #7 to be swapped. The firing order has #5 and #7 right next to each other on the distributor cap- AND the spark plugs are next to each other at the cylinder head. This gives two chances to transpose the wires. The engine will run like that, but poorly.


Last edited by cobalt327; 08-11-2012 at 12:16 AM.
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Old 08-11-2012, 12:31 AM
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mr sadler

to clear off whether valves are hitting piston top.

what pistons are you using?

what's the cams lift?

you're rotating camshaft with heads on

and valve spring pressure?

i've never done that.

sounds kind of hard.

i know 283 but not 305 heads.

let me see, smaller chamber equals

valve closer to head or not?

is this a fresh engine or problem just start?

have a nice day!
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Old 08-11-2012, 06:33 PM
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Still screwing with the distributor position. Seems to have low manifold vacuum. Carb screw crancked in all the way for idle, still not idling.
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Old 08-11-2012, 06:49 PM
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What cam is in this motor. Did you verify true TDC on the balancer using a piston stop and correct the timing tab yet?

get a timing light. Install a engine ground wire to the firewall.
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Old 08-11-2012, 08:43 PM
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what is a piston stop? Is there a diference between the timing marks on a 1964 283 balancer and the 1985 305 balancer on it? could this be causing my issues?
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  #26 (permalink)  
Old 08-11-2012, 11:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alsadler View Post
what is a piston stop? Is there a diference between the timing marks on a 1964 283 balancer and the 1985 305 balancer on it? could this be causing my issues?
Glad to see that you have read and understood the help you've already been given.

See ya'.
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Old 08-11-2012, 11:51 PM
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sadler

a piston stop is for keeping the

#1 piston from going all the way to top

WITH HEADS OFF.

ok, maybe there's one that fits through spark plug hole.

it's for marking TRUE top dead center #1 ON THE DAMPENER.

yes, good chance dampeners can be different.

yes, timing to an off TDC mark can cause problems.

have a nice day!
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  #28 (permalink)  
Old 08-12-2012, 01:22 AM
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When using a piston stop in the spark plug hole be sure to loosen off the rocker nuts completely on that cylinder
so the valves do not move while using the piston stop.
Or the moving valves will hit the piston stop.
You can make one or buy one.
I make my own using a old spark plug body and a 5/16" or 3/8" steel tube. (steel fuel line)
Weld or braze the tube into the hole of the gutted spark plug body. May need a slight curve on the end. Trim the length of the probe as required. Do not weld the tube shut.

You want the stop to contact the piston before TDC.
Only turn the crank BY HAND. one direction, then the other way and mark the stop points on the balancer. Do not jamb the piston against the stop.
True TDC is right smack in the middle of the two stop points.

Either remark the balancer with a file, then paint a white line on the now TDC mark or move the tab to correct it.
Even factory balancers and tabs are fubared.

reset the rockers after you are all done. Useing the IC EO method.
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Old 08-12-2012, 07:12 PM
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found the cam was in wrong.
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  #30 (permalink)  
Old 08-13-2012, 03:10 PM
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found the cam was in wrong.
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