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  #16 (permalink)  
Old 06-09-2012, 02:11 PM
How fast is fast enough?
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Richiehd
Shift points 8200 rpm!!
And I'd like to disagree, Crank throw absolutel? y has to do with max RPM. Thats why Indy cars turn 10,000-12,000 rpm, very short stroke. Yes, you need the valvetrain, and cam duration to do it.
comparing an indy engine to a sbc is like comparing an airplane to a paperclip. And they go much higher than 10,000 rpm.

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  #17 (permalink)  
Old 06-09-2012, 02:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ap72
comparing an indy engine to a sbc is like comparing an airplane to a paperclip. And they go much higher than 10,000 rpm.
I wasnt comparing....Shorter stroke higher RPM thats all...

The 302 was developed as the Z28 package for SCCA Trans Am racing. Interesting article here
http://camaros.us/camaro-z28-history-first-gen/
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  #18 (permalink)  
Old 06-09-2012, 02:53 PM
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I'm sure that motor was a pretty cool piece and had some rules bent to get it that fast. Jenkins was a pretty creative guy. It's amazing that it ran so good with such a small camshaft.

But to say a 302 won't make any power is just silly. Hit up a NHRA national and watch the super stock and stock eliminator classes. You will see 302,305 and 307's that will prove you wrong.

Is there better engines out there? You bet!
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  #19 (permalink)  
Old 06-09-2012, 05:37 PM
How fast is fast enough?
 
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Any engine can be made to make power, that doesn't mean it is a great platform to start with. There are also 1,000hp 4cylinder engines out there, so is everyone going to go get a tiny four banger?

Showing 302 power numbers also doesn't do anything to show you'd be better off with a 383 or larger, which is the point.

If I pulled my 3" stroke for a 3.75" one id gain a significant amount of power, and be more likely to blow a transmission.
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  #20 (permalink)  
Old 06-09-2012, 08:10 PM
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wow ! i better go back where i came from. lol . i got lots to learn . lol
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  #21 (permalink)  
Old 06-09-2012, 08:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ap72
Any engine can be made to make power, that doesn't mean it is a great platform to start with. There are also 1,000hp 4cylinder engines out there, so is everyone going to go get a tiny four banger?

Showing 302 power numbers also doesn't do anything to show you'd be better off with a 383 or larger, which is the point.

If I pulled my 3" stroke for a 3.75" one id gain a significant amount of power, and be more likely to blow a transmission.
[QUOTE=ap72]Any engine can be made to make power

That was EXACTLY my point

[QUOTE=ap72] There are also 1,000hp 4cylinder engines out there, so is everyone going to go get a tiny four banger?

Yup there sure is.. If it's what someone is interested in... sure why not. The Ricer's with all the boost are running some good number's.

If everyone built 383's with vortec heads it would be a pretty boring hobby.
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  #22 (permalink)  
Old 06-09-2012, 09:03 PM
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I second that if all hotrodding was is to put a 383 or 347 stroker in our cars every one would have the same set up as every one else so if some wanted to build a 283 or even 305 and so on we should support them not tell em to get rid of there boat anchor and get a 350 and turn it into a 383 we should give them the best info we can about there engine isnt that what this forum is about
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  #23 (permalink)  
Old 06-09-2012, 09:14 PM
How fast is fast enough?
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1996thunderchicken
I second that if all hotrodding was is to put a 383 or 347 stroker in our cars every one would have the same set up as every one else so if some wanted to build a 283 or even 305 and so on we should support them not tell em to get rid of there boat anchor and get a 350 and turn it into a 383 we should give them the best info we can about there engine isnt that what this forum is about
I don't believe anyone said not to build a 302- just that you shouldn't expect big power numbers from it.

I've built a lot of small engines, but I knew they were limited because of their size.
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  #24 (permalink)  
Old 06-09-2012, 10:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ap72
I don't believe anyone said not to build a 302- just that you shouldn't expect big power numbers from it.

I've built a lot of small engines, but I knew they were limited because of their size.
If you didn't have much luck then your probably not the right person to be trying. To be honest I'm not either as my Prostreet car is a larger cubic inch motor.

The right person with the right combo can make them run good numbers.

What car did you put these engines in and what ET did they run?
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  #25 (permalink)  
Old 06-09-2012, 11:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ap72
I don't believe anyone said not to build a 302- just that you shouldn't expect big power numbers from it.

I've built a lot of small engines, but I knew they were limited because of their size.
I think everyone on here would like to see some pictures of the cars you have and the engines you have built since we hear so much about them. Surely you have some pictures, every hotrodder does, post them up.
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  #26 (permalink)  
Old 06-10-2012, 09:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by S10 Racer
I think everyone on here would like to see some pictures of the cars you have and the engines you have built since we hear so much about them. Surely you have some pictures, every hotrodder does, post them up.

It got kinda quite in here..
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  #27 (permalink)  
Old 06-10-2012, 09:17 PM
How fast is fast enough?
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by S10 Racer
I think everyone on here would like to see some pictures of the cars you have and the engines you have built since we hear so much about them. Surely you have some pictures, every hotrodder does, post them up.
i can take a picture of what I'm curently working on, I don't have much of the old stuff, except a few pics of an old ta, motorcycle, a bunch of different sbc heads, maybe some of s10's and maybe a little other stuff. I didn't really take many pics.

If you want some of the 302 I'm building I can take some of the crank and block and what not but it looks the same as 350 parts. I can take some pics of the lt1 heads I'm working on for it too but I only just started on the bowls. If its the 2.3l in my bobcat it looks just like any other 2.3l ford except I modified the header some and its running a 1406 on a modified efi intake. The l28 I'm working on looks mostly stock except the intake, throttle body, and polished valve cover.

Let me know what you want a pic of and I'll try to get one. Except the Cutlass, I'm storing that at my pops and I'm not driving a half hour for a picture.

One truck I wish I did document more was the 2.5l s10 I built, that thing wasn't fast but it was a hell of a lot of fun to take off roading on forestry roads. I'll build another like it someday, probably a 2.2l s10 though.
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  #28 (permalink)  
Old 06-10-2012, 09:59 PM
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Someody better tell Chevy that their 302 didn't make any power or wind well back in '69 when they came out with it in the Z28! It was factory rated at 290 hp, and dyno tests done on the cars by magazines showed it was more like 425 HP. It would wind 7,000 rpm's with ease and was one of the fastest small cubic inch engines ever built in a stock vehicle.
I'm calling bull on your predictions ap72. I've owned a couple old 302 Camaros and a 301 built in the old method of 283 crank in a 327. They not only can make power, but they do. I have no idea where you're getting your info on the 302.
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  #29 (permalink)  
Old 06-11-2012, 02:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1971BB427
Someody better tell Chevy that their 302 didn't make any power or wind well back in '69 when they came out with it in the Z28! It was factory rated at 290 hp, and dyno tests done on the cars by magazines showed it was more like 425 HP. It would wind 7,000 rpm's with ease and was one of the fastest small cubic inch engines ever built in a stock vehicle.
I'm calling bull on your predictions ap72. I've owned a couple old 302 Camaros and a 301 built in the old method of 283 crank in a 327. They not only can make power, but they do. I have no idea where you're getting your info on the 302.
The "old method" 301 was a 4" 283. As in a +0.125" overbore. This was what we did before there were 327s to use the block from. The MAIN reason for doing this was to salvage a previously bored 283 block- not because there was any performance advantage to speak of, over a 0.060" or 0.090" over 283.

The success rate for boring a production 283 to 4" was not that good; even if sand pockets weren't found the walls could be very thin on one side if core shift was bad. Not to mention no one back then used torque plates for honing as a routine thing. Best bet was to do a half fill and cross your fingers.

BTW, my first car had a 301. Not because that's what I wanted, but because that was what I could have free from our 'yard (I paid for my parts just like anyone, except I could work off the debt).
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  #30 (permalink)  
Old 06-11-2012, 08:45 AM
How fast is fast enough?
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1971BB427
Someody better tell Chevy that their 302 didn't make any power or wind well back in '69 when they came out with it in the Z28! It was factory rated at 290 hp, and dyno tests done on the cars by magazines showed it was more like 425 HP. It would wind 7,000 rpm's with ease and was one of the fastest small cubic inch engines ever built in a stock vehicle.
I'm calling bull on your predictions ap72. I've owned a couple old 302 Camaros and a 301 built in the old method of 283 crank in a 327. They not only can make power, but they do. I have no idea where you're getting your info on the 302.
I have never seen anything even remotely suggesting the 302 could come close to 425hp in stock form- because it was a LONG way off. Also, spinning at 7,000 RPM and making power at 7,000 rpm are two different things, floating the valves isn't good for power...

Nostalgia is a helluva drug.
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