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Old 08-28-2008, 06:05 PM
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Brian Martin,Freelance adviser
 
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2K aerosol can filler primer review.

Well, the 2K Rubberseal aerosol can testing continues. Today it’s the 2K filler primer part number RS-586. I have to say, I am really impressed by these products so far. I posted a while ago reporting the results of the 2K epoxy primer RS-587 finding it totally insoluble to lacquer thinner and urethane reducer. I did a very aggressive rub test and they didn’t even touch that epoxy primer.
This primer didn’t hold up as well to the thinner rub test. But it does take a pretty good rubbing to get a little color on the rag. It still held up darn good. It is an “iso-free” filler primer similar to PPG’s NCP primers and even smells like it when sanded.

The amazing thing was the filling and sanding qualities. I did a repair in polyester putty on a Toyota Camry fender. I finished off the filler in180 grit as I usually do. But I didn’t think that was enough of a challenge for that primer and half of the filler I finished blocking it with nice sharp 80 grit.

I applied it as per the instructions on the can with 5 coats with a flash of 3-5 minutes. Now, it was darn hot at about 90 degrees out so it flashed pretty fast. I added another coat over the area of the filler that was sanded with 80grit. I thought for sure that this little aerosol can wasn’t going to fill that 80 grit at all let alone with only 5 coats knowing how aerosol cans cover like crap.

Well, how about 1 coat made 1 mil! So at the 6 coats I had 6 mils! The one can covered this area with 5-6 coats no problem and I had a lot left so I made another test panel stripped to bare metal and just kept applying coats……13 of them. The can was still spraying good at 5 hours after busting the hardener container in the can. It did have kind of a “chunky” effect near the end. The first coats on the fender, that sucker sprayed like a little touch up gun, very nice with no splattering.

So, on this test panel, how about 15 mils!

I blocked the fender with 320 and then sanded it with 600 and then prepped the fender for a blend. The 6 coats filled those 80 grit scratches no sweat! I blocked and sanded very aggressively without sanding thru!

Coming up next….how about the paint being applied with a “Pre-val” aerosol system and then the RS-588 urethane clear aerosol can! Yep, I am doing this whole job in 2K products and no spray gun or compressor. I’ll report on that later.

Brian




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Old 08-29-2008, 02:07 PM
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Good report Brian. The only Rubberseal product I have any experience with is the "Rust Defender" polyester primer and it is first class stuff, on par or better than the high dollar brand. I will look ahead to your remaining evaluations of Rubberseal products.

Vince
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Old 08-29-2008, 02:55 PM
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I posted the results from my first exposure to it when I reported about the 2k epoxy aerosol here .

Brian
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Old 08-30-2008, 09:10 AM
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I noticed last night that I am a dumb ars and was reading the mil gauge from the wrong side. Notice that it says "Side", that is for measuring on a horizontal surface. I should have been reading from the side marked "Top". So there is less mil build than reported, still about 5 so very impressive.

I did a cross hatch scratch on that test panel with the 15 mils on it and put it out in the back yard. Here is the kicker, I did this cross hatch scratch with my pocket knife. I locking blade buck, pretty sharp point hefty knife. I did a very agressive scratch because I want that shiny bare metal there in the scratch. I was blown away when I saw that I didn't even come close to getting thru the stuff! I scratched a very deep scratch but didn't even come close to getting thru! It took THREE more extremely aggressive attempts to get thru to the bare metal. And it didn't chip off, it didn't even chip off the paint that I applied it over where I didn't even sand it! I stripped this chunk of a door skin to bare metal with 80 grit with my killer. I didn't feather it out, I only cut the paint off. I then applied my 13 coats over the bare metal and up onto the paint, that was unsanded. The stuff feathered beautifully when I blocked it FILLING that 80 grit feather with ease! And even with the knife it didn't come off the unsanded paint! Wild stuff so far.

Brian
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Old 08-30-2008, 08:26 PM
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Here is how the can works.

Brian

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Old 09-04-2008, 12:21 PM
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One of my co-workers "helped" me by spraying this fender today. I was planning on a full on aerosol repair but that will have to come with another fender darn it.

But this is a good test too, he applied regular S-W base over it and then a urethane clear from a gun. He knew I was just testing this primer so he wasn't careful and did pile it on a little thick getting few runs. So this is a good test as to if it would shrink. It was baked at 140 and it shows absolutely ZERO shrinkage. Now remember I "asked" it to fill 80 grit scratches so holding up is pretty impressive.

It has ZERO shrinkage at the edge of the primer as well, these damn aerosol cans are darn impressive.

Brian

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Old 09-05-2008, 05:06 AM
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Hey Brian, is that primer a recomended undercoat for S-W paints? LOL....I had to throw that in there cuz I know how much of a stickler you are for tech sheets usually
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Old 09-05-2008, 07:44 AM
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LOL, the farther you go from tech sheets the more trouble you will have by the ODDS that is my mantra.

When it comes to fully cured primers under paint, I have said the paint doesn't "know" what kind of primer it is.

I don't have a zero tolerance for goodness sakes.

Brian
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Old 09-05-2008, 11:24 AM
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Brian,

I've been following this review with great interest. My thought was that this aerosol might solve a major dilemma many of us face. I'm currently prepping all the chassis componenets for the sedan/delivery build, which means sanding (or blasting) every part to clean it up, in some cases doing some filler work, and then priming and painting. However, the component clean-up stage takes many days. Thus, a lot of parts sitting in bare metal before a large enough batch can be gathered up to make mixing and shooting epoxy worthwhile. My first thought was that this aerosol might be the perfect remedy.

However, upon reading your last couple posts it clearly wouldn't be the ideal solution. I didn't realize you had to shoot up the entire can within a few hours or it would harden and be unusable.

As an alternative, I'm wondering if you might take a request for one additional experiment in your "mythbusters" review process. Could you try shooting some test pieces in cheapo hardware store automotive aerosol primer, letting them set a few days, and then applying the epoxy on top? The idea being, if you have tons of tiny little parts to clean and prep, you could get some temporary protection on them before running the large, and more costly, application of epoxy.

I think I understand the misgivings associated with such a technique (trapping the bad solvents and chemicals that are in a typical aerosol and having an inferior product under the paint) but I'd just like to see if you could duplicated the results of your scratch and hardness tests or whether the inferior undercoating would just be a disaster waiting in the wings.

Dewey
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Old 09-05-2008, 12:42 PM
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The problem is Dewey, the primer may "hold up" until you apply your epoxy but that "rattle can" primer is going to be your base, that isn't good. As a matter of fact, applying the epoxy may not help you much at all in that case.

There are some "etch" primers out of a can that I have done scratch tests on that work pretty decent, but they are no epoxy primer!

Brian
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Old 09-05-2008, 04:39 PM
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Rats, I was afraid that would be your answer Brian. So are there any other viable alternatives to protect bare metal over the short haul...prior to getting a good epoxy coat applied? I'm talking a few days to a week or so. I just find it to be a huge pain in the rear to mix up, cure, shoot, and then clean up a batch of epoxy every day, not to mention the waste that has to be dumped out if you miscalculate the amount you need.

I don't want to pull this thread too far off topic but this issue does seem to speak to the usefulness of this product. If the pot life of the aerosol can is only 5 hours, I would think it makes about as much sense to just use a gun. But then maybe that's the point...maybe it's primarily designed for the folks without access to a gun and compressor.
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Old 09-05-2008, 05:33 PM
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Picklex may be the product for you. I have applied it to bare metal and find that it works amazing. Now, as far as applying primer over it, they say it is fine but I am kinda weird about stuff like that. Give Len a call over at Autobodystore.com and ask him.

Brian
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Old 09-05-2008, 08:05 PM
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There's a thread going over on SPI's user forum right now related to the problems with using picklex under epoxy primer. I think the whole car is being restripped shortly. These metal preps need to be used with a lot of thought, I use them on occasion but totally rinse them clean with water after the acid does it's work-then sand to bare metal before primer. I've done some tests with etching and conversion solutions that specifically say in the instructions to allow the stuff to completely dry do not rinse off then paint directly over the coating- every test I've done using that proceedure shows very poor adhesion.

Cboy, Here's an option for you: as you clean them parts up just mix up a little epoxy and brush a thin coat on. If you can get it on thin the brush marks won't be bad and you'll have a great foundation for under that aresol 2K surfacer. When all the parts are cleaned and in epoxy crack that aresol open and spray them all. Seriously, a brushed on coat of quality epoxy primer will work just fine-I've done it. Something else to think about if you don't like wasting materials: If you use SPI's epoxy and end up with left over mixed epoxy cover it well and it can be used again the next day-IF you mix an equal amount of fresh epoxy and add it to the left overs. This proceedure can be used every 24hrs to reactivate the potlife so if you're priming more parts daily then there's never any wasted material.

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Old 09-05-2008, 08:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by baddbob
Seriously, a brushed on coat of quality epoxy primer will work just fine-I've done it.
Hmmm, sounds like that might be a plan. Do you actually cut the epoxy with a thinning agent or try to just brush very delicately?

As I think about it, by the time you shoot the actual epoxy coat later and then a coat of fill primer, a bit of light sanding might just take care of any telltale brush marks. I think I'll try your trick tomorrow and see how it goes.
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Old 09-05-2008, 08:53 PM
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Don't reduce it, just brush one coat on with a fine bristle brush. And yes if it's SPI you can sand it before applying your surfacer. Some epoxies sand better than others, SPI sands the best IMO.
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