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  #16 (permalink)  
Old 04-15-2011, 09:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by deadbodyman
Basicly,If I strip the whole car I'll epoxy it...If its a repair it just gets 2k...
x2

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  #17 (permalink)  
Old 04-15-2011, 09:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BarryK
-----------------------------------------------------------------
Not sure if you know this but Dupont and BASF have full time R&D departments just for OEMS, you could sell this info to one of them and again we are talking millions of dollars they would be thrilled to pay you just to have this kind of edge.

Its great what a person can learn on here, thanks!
They might last that long anyway... if people took care of them... and they didn't run into things... or get run into.

...Take it easy on me though. I told you I probably don't know what I'm talking about! :-)

This does bring up a very good question though. I don't know this answer to this, but... what kind of primers do the major car manufacturers use? That should really tell the "bottom line" story about reliability. They need excellent performance, without wasting money on nonproductive components. If they are using epoxy, I will shut up.
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Old 04-15-2011, 10:21 AM
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Ecoat is epoxy, 80% now waterborne epoxy, the black coatings that come on replacement fenders etc.

Frames Ecoat.

procedure, dipped in acid tank and then, usually three neutralization tanks then dipped in epoxy tank and mils is decided by the amount of charge to the panel.

Addition;
I should add some are sprayed, depending on plant and the part.

Last edited by BarryK; 04-15-2011 at 10:32 AM.
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  #19 (permalink)  
Old 04-15-2011, 01:05 PM
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I think you guys have ecoat confused with epoxy. If epoxy is that good how come I see all these cars with rusted out replacement hoods/fenders that got never painted.
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Old 04-15-2011, 01:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mitmaks
I think you guys have ecoat confused with epoxy. If epoxy is that good how come I see all these cars with rusted out replacement hoods/fenders that got never painted.
UV is my best guess. And not all parts that look like ecoat are, search out GM's video showing the difference between their coating and aftermarket coating
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Old 04-15-2011, 01:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Old Fool
UV is my best guess. And not all parts that look like ecoat are, search out GM's video showing the difference between their coating and aftermarket coating

Exactly, I was in a plant 2-4 years ago that made front cradles and other parts, they had the epoxy mil thickness set to .3 and did a salt spray test at 13% solution (33% is what I was taught??) every 200 or so parts, hoping to get in 250 hour range.
Pretty crappy and put that in the sun, won't last long.

They we looking for cheaper yet and asking about SS direct to metal.

Bad news.
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Old 04-15-2011, 02:46 PM
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I may have answered my own question. I found an article on "e coating" from a company called PCI.

E coat stands for the electrolosis process... not the type of paint. The process had been around since before epoxies. I think it was the thirties or forties.

It says that today they are using mostly epoxy or acrylic paints in the e coat process, depending on the climate and area that the products will be used.

Sounds like the car manufacturers use mostly epoxy.
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Old 04-15-2011, 03:45 PM
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you know, barry knows what hes talking about from time to time. LOL
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Old 04-15-2011, 04:09 PM
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Primer

I Used Ppg Industral Primer El-cheapo 100 For The Kit Straight Over Bare Metal Worked Great
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  #25 (permalink)  
Old 04-15-2011, 04:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jeremyb
you know, barry knows what hes talking about from time to time. LOL
I know I live in a bubble, because if something works for me, I never change. (That always requires the extra expense of a learning curve.) :-(

I just stopped using Lacquer for color work about 10-12 years ago.... but only because of the diminishing color formulas, and rapidly vanishing suppliers.

I'll probably start using epoxy primer in about 10-20 years.... but I haven't seen a reason yet. LOL! :-)~
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Old 04-15-2011, 06:17 PM
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One thing about this business is it changes overnight and I'm out of the loop the last few years with the OEMS.
Wiht pricing as critical as it is today for a business to survive it would never shock me what may start showing up on the cars themselves or replacement parts.

Most critical is the OEM replacement parts stay with the same coatings, minor problems were sprung on body shops when they started to change to waterborne instead of solvent as it is hard to tell the difference and some of the higher end shops had adhesion problems until the word got out that they were not dealing with the same coating as before.

A lot had to do with the system they were using and the process, so a slight change and process, took care of the problem.

Now there seems to be a rash of calls with some OEM parts lifting, no matter what you put over them, especially on new coated bumper.

So who knows what they are using on all the parts.
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Old 04-15-2011, 07:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BarryK
So who knows what they are using on all the parts.
...especially those built by Chinese children! :-)~ Just kidding!
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Old 04-16-2011, 05:46 AM
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were i have my most problems is with bumpers.

i use mostly aftermarket covers and they are nightmares anymore.

never get the same results in a row


dont have any problems with the coatings on the Metal parts oem or aftermarket yet
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Old 04-16-2011, 06:29 AM
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no idea why they feel the need to coat some of these new bumpers in the primer that they use.

give it to me raw so i know exactly whats going on it.

most of the bronco parts i've gotten for the bronco are all bare steel.....coated with oil but none the less bare steel so just clean, blast a little and epoxy. start fresh. would much rather have stuff this way than the black coatings on some of this stuff.
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Old 04-16-2011, 07:25 AM
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Bumper-Coating?

The company, I mentioned I was in with the ecoats was a higher end Jap company and I have no way of knowing if this is true but the engineer and I were discussing bumpers, as some of these bumpers going back 10 years ago would have a problem coating and then six months later all would be fine.

He told me that they would save their waste base colors and when they had enough ship it to a paint manufacturer and they would blend to together and tint and then use that for a coating on the bumpers.
Here again, I don't know if this is true but it costs me $250 a 55 gallon drum of waste to be hauled off, so with 10000's of gallons generated this would be a real money saver and with what he told me, I could do a 1000 gallons in about 30 minutes, so its no big labor cost.
A big paint company could easily do 10,000 gallons in 30 minutes.

Could be true or could be bull but does add up.
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