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Old 10-11-2003, 04:51 PM
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3 1/2 gallons, still looks like a camouflaged

I have put 3 and 1/2 galllons of BASF urethane on this 51 ford with a HLVP gun and it still looks like a air force camouflaged vehicle. and I still haven't paint the doors, fenders or hood yet.

I did a test on a test sheet given to me by the paint shop. I put 5 coats of paint on it and you can still read every letter on the test sheet. I was told 3 coats should hide it. It did with their catalized acrylic enamel which I used for the inside and it covered fine in 3 coats , nearly two coats covered the letters.

Anybody else had this problem with BASF urethane????, I am spraying a med blue solid color.

A friend of mine whos nephew is a car painter, looked at the test sheets and said, oh your spraying candy apple without the apple. He said , " I think with a good gold base , it would have looked good." He could not believe how transparent the paint is.

Jimmy in nc

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Old 10-11-2003, 04:55 PM
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3-!/2 gallons, geeze, I think somebody at the paint store screwed up. I just sprayed some PPG DBU medium blue metallic and finished the hood and top of a 90 full size Chevy truck with one quart of base, and that was three coats.

Vince
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Old 10-11-2003, 06:44 PM
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It looks like you've gotten a bad mix. 3 and a half gallons is just a little to much. I've done a whole car fenders and inside and outside with 2 gallons. And that made 4 coats easy.
Have the guy mixing it up spray some if he doesn't think your doing it right.
I know some laws just changed and they have to make paint a little different now so when this happened to me I took it back to the shop and made them mix me up a new batch. They were nice about. Thats how i found out about the laws.

This is what I was told. Because of some idiots(EPA) out there they have to make paints with LESS solids now. Thats right less color and body. Now I thought about this and had this idea. If there is less color in the paint wouldn't I have to spray MORE to get the same coverage?
The EPA is stupid. You can't use lead based paint for road lines but you can spray pure oil/tar on it to seal it up.

But back to your question. Get a new mix if you can.
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Old 10-11-2003, 06:46 PM
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3-1/2 GALLONS? I don't put that much on my house! Something is definately wrong with that picture.
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Old 10-11-2003, 09:25 PM
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I just wrote for a half and hour and it lost my reply. Said I was,t registared. Second time it has done this, that sucks..

Jimmy in nc
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Old 10-11-2003, 10:29 PM
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3 and a half gallons wholly shmolly, id say you better chip the paint back off, and try something else, , i think i know wht u did, you kept going with the base, when you saw the bleed thru spots, You might wanna use a SEALER before you lay the base, you should only need 2-3 coats or to hiding.
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Old 10-12-2003, 08:47 AM
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You had better go back to square one and start over. First off..strip the paint. There is no way that painting with 3 1/2 gals. of paint will hold up. One stone chip and if will be the size of a half dollar. Either the paint was screwed up or you screwed up. Painting a complete car should only take a gallon. And you put on 3 1/2 and haven't painted the door, fenders or hood yet? You had better stop while your ahead. Strip it down and start over. Did you get the paint from a reputable dealer or is this some of the $35 / gal. paint off of EBay or someplace like that. Hell I'd hate to have to pay for 3 1/2 gal. of good paint. The way you are going you'd have another 3 gallons to go for the rest of the car.

Kevin
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Old 10-12-2003, 09:25 AM
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Some facts guys:

This paint is brand new from a reputable dealer here in asheville nc.

It is not base/coat clear or candy apple. It is plain old spray on solid color blue urethane. No clear coat.

I did return about 2/3 of a gallon as it it had little orange spongy pieces of crap in it. The paint co gave me a new quart to try as I was having bad fish eye problems also. They gave me some test sheets which are an industry standard I am told. I shot 5 coat s of the new paint on the test sheets, we were looking for fish eye not coverage at that time, The 5 coats did not cover the test sheet writing at all. You can get these test sheets at your paint store. It looked like candy apple paint, it does not go on evenly, even my test looks terrible as far a coverage goes. The paint co told me that the base used for BASF urethane was very thin and that the catalyzed acryic enamel was much thicker and covered better. That is why when I shot the test sheets with the black, it covered in 2-3 coats with no problem they said. I used the black cat acyrlic enamel for interior parts ( it was great, no problems).

I have painted this car three times. The first time, I had bad fish eyes. Sanded, re painted. The second paint job , I paid this guy who paints a lot of street rods and they are georgous to help me. We started , noticed little bits of trash (looked like sand) all in the paint. We stopped, we had the top and front cowl finished, fogged the rest.( Ralph said it was the worst paint in 20 years, he has sprayed). Paint people said the rep said to give me more paint.

I re sanded the whole car down one more time, The third time I painted it , I gave it a fog coat, a second coat, a third coat, then I gave it a 4th double coat, and 5th gave it a heave double coat and then hit a few spots even with more paint.

I did 1000 it ( dirt/bug problems), on the top, then used 1500 for the rest very lightly.

In the sun, it looks terrible.

I guess its the rep or my attorney, monday. The paint shops choice. I am getting tired of painting , sanding it. I know some places on this car have 15-20 coats.

Jimmy in asheville
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Old 10-12-2003, 10:10 AM
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I think, like Kevin said, you are going to need to strip off the paint and start over, to prevent some serious chipping problems. If you don't strip it, you also may want to look for some heavier suspension parts. That is alot of added weight to that vehicle.
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Old 10-12-2003, 11:14 AM
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I would abandon the particular brand of paint you have been using and go with a more traditional BC/CC. They definatly IMO have some serious design problems with the paint you are using.

Vince
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Old 10-12-2003, 12:04 PM
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You guys are great and talk with a lot of sense.

The paint is BASF Limco urethane. It is their cheaper line of paint (about 80.00 per gallon)but it still should cover in 6-7 coats I would think. It should cover in three coats actually. I noticed that at the paint shop, there were tech sheets on every BASF paint but this one. That should have threw up a red flag I guess.

I must admit that the owner of the local paint shop did want me to use the BASF Limco Catalized acrylic enamel instead of the urethane. I wish I had now.

I did paint under the hood, trunk and the doors, fenders have been painted once or twice already, but need additonal coats to cover as it looks like camouflage also.

This paint, when spraying it, looks like clear with a little blue tint in it.

Jimmy in nc
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Old 10-12-2003, 06:23 PM
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paint problems

Jimmy,I've been doing bodywork and painting cars for 30 years ,and have NEVER put on that much paint .I have painted darn near every brand of paint at one time or another ,both low cost and high buck .There is NO ,I repeat NO reason for that paint not to have covered with that many coats !Single stage paint( i.e. non BC/CC )should cover with a maximum of 3-4 coats even with out sealer .You are getting a serious over-build of paint film ,and any more paint on top of what is already on ,and you are looking at a serious cracking problem down the road !My advice---take off as much as you can ,by what ever means you want (sand it ,strip it ,etc.)AND START OVER! I am sure that's not what you wanted to hear ,but it's the RIGHT way to go .Then ,start with a good quality sealer that is the SAME brand as the paint you are using .The purpose of the sealer is just that ,to seal .It also will give you a solid ,uniform color to start your paint job .Next ,find another paint dealer to buy from .The minute you started to have trouble ,they should have had a factory paint rep look at it .Personally ,I've never had any trouble with BASF brands ,but , something here is DEFINITELY WRONG . And, lastly ,find another painter to help you .If he is a good painter ,he should have realized that there was a problem ,and NOT kept laying more paint on top of what you had already .
Hope you have better kuck next time around . Rick
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Old 10-12-2003, 08:00 PM
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hey Rick,

Thanks for the advise. Yes, I am at wits end. I will let you all know what happens tomorrow if my horseness goes away.

The local paint dealer said earlier that they thought I could spray over the urethane with BASF cat acrylic enamel. My problem is that I am spraying outside under a tarp, and a blue one at that. My spraying days are numbered. It is suppose to be high in the low 60's for a while, then who knows. I am in the mountains of nc and we are usually 10-15 degrees below rest of state.

I was hoping to get the car in my garage ( now occupied by a 39 ford coupe, barn fresh) and put a gm front clip, wiring, etc on it and have it ready for final assembly in april or may.

Do you think I can d/a it??? I have been sanding it down each time by hand with 400 but not all the way down.


I might just have to wait until spring now to paint unless I take it to a body shop

THANKS TO ALL THAT HAVE ANSWERED.

Jimmy in nc
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Old 10-12-2003, 08:03 PM
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I agree with F1 Owner about your painting advisor, he should have snapped long before now that the paint was bogus.

Vince
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Old 10-12-2003, 08:39 PM
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jimmyd....DO NOT put on any more paint. even though you sand down with 400 every time, you still have WAY to much buildup of paint. When you started shooting and noticed it was not covering you should have stopped right there and not added more. If this is the third time you have painted the car and are still having problems it looks to me like you need to change your process. When you get fisheye that shows the car is not clean or has been contaminated after cleaning. The car should have been sealed, tacked, then sprayed. It sounds to me like there is too much going on in between. If you are under a tarp it could be that the tarp is contaminated with dirt and that is where you are getting fisheye. You could also add fisheye eliminator into the paint to help alleviate the problem. As far as painting it again. If the only place you have to paint is outside under a tarp and it is starting to get cool, you might have to wait until next year. You are going to have to chemically strip the paint or DA it off. You are going to have to go back to metal and start over. If you add anymore over what you have now you are just going to have problems down the road and have to strip it at that time. Also as stated below you may want to look into another painter to help you out. If the paint was not covering in one or two coats then any reputable painter would have stopped. I have painted for going on 30 years although I haven't painted for the last 10 or so but the basics are still the same. Just make sure the rep is going to give you credit for what materials you will need. Also try and get some materials thrown in for stripping what you already have because of all the time you have spent. Forget about any more money for your time because that usually won't happen unless you get a lawyer and the lawyer fees will cost you more than all the materials combined. So if you can get stripping materials and all your paint materials replaced with no out of pocket, consider yourself lucky and chalk this up to a good learning experience. Keep us informed as to what happens.

Kevin
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