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Old 03-12-2004, 10:21 PM
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3 link question

Okay here is the deal. As alot of you know I am building a S10 with airride and a V8 (former POTW truck) and I am running a 3 link wishbone setup in the rear. It is similar to this setup...but not as easy as a bolt-on.

Alot of cutting and welding took place to get my setup to work.
I am also running an airride setup in the front also. Here is my question...After I get the motor and trans in the truck, what should I expect from this setup when I put the hammer down from a dead stop? Am I looking at alot of wheel hop? Good Hook-up? Some torque "lift" or squat? I am just curious. The bars that are on my setup are 2 1/8"od bars that are 15 1/2" long on the lowers and about the same length on the upper. I am going to be running a good streetable 350 cid small block. At ride height I have a 3-4* negative pinion angle, and the engine will be mounted accordingly. Before you ask...I HAVE to run a negative pinion angle due to the fact that the driveshaft,center section and pinion yolk will bind up when I dump the air out of the bags.
Thanks for the help.
Here is a pic of my actual setup at ride height.
Later,
WEIMER
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Old 03-13-2004, 05:04 AM
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You won't get any hop. As for squat or rise, read my post near the bottom of the first page of "4-link suspension design." The post begins, "I thought you had fabbed...." If the intersection falls behind the rear axle, the squat and rise areas are reversed.
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Old 03-13-2004, 05:17 PM
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Weimer,

Did you buy just certain parts of a Road Grater kit? Im an Air Ride Tech dealer and I didnt know you could do that.
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Old 03-13-2004, 06:38 PM
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I didn't buy any of the Road Grater kit...I bought a setup through a fab guy in Indiana. I was impressed by the 'beefy-ness' of his setup compared to the ART setup. It is probably overkill but it looks good One of the reasons why I haven't bought anything from AirRide Tech is because of the attitude of the guys that work there...I go to GoodGuys every year and last year I was seriously looking at their setup in Columbus, and those guys need a big lesson in Public Relations.
Later,
WEIMER
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Old 03-13-2004, 07:59 PM
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Ah....suicide doors. I wish guys like him were around when i had my truck. You should come check out our booth at this years GoodGuys Columbus show, we will have a corner spot somewhere in the main building.
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Old 03-13-2004, 10:18 PM
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I wouldn't miss GG in Columbus for anything...Maybe I'll look you up this year.Are you setting up in the Merchant building across from where they 'awards' building is?
Suicide Doors...aka Thorbecke Fabrications. I started out dealing with Jason but I seem to find myself asking for Adam most of the time lately.
Later,
WEIMER
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Old 03-14-2004, 07:28 AM
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Yeah, the same building GoodGuys has their main merchandise booth. They better have the A/C on because i am such a p***y and hate summer.
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Old 03-14-2004, 05:08 PM
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with a properly set-up 3-link or 4-link pinion angle should not change and you need to know the angle of the tailshaft before you can set pinion angle
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Old 03-14-2004, 05:26 PM
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Hey Weimer,


The setup is looking good. You should not see any wheel hop on the three link since the axle can not rotate at all. I think you will see some body roll and swat. A four link by nature prevents body roll, but I think the three link will allow some. Since your bars are almost parallel there really is no instant center to tune, so you will also see some squat. With a four link the instant center(imaginary front intersect point of the bars) can be tuned to eliminate swat if desired. Another thing is the air bags which will give more than a coil over shock and spring would.

I think overall the setup will hook really good for the street and you will be very happy with it.

Chris
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Old 03-14-2004, 05:44 PM
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Quote:
you need to know the angle of the tailshaft before you can set pinion angle
I can't set the pinion angle to match the tailshaft because there isn't an engine/trans in the truck yet. From my understanding I can set the tailshaft angle to match the rearend pinion angle. With this setup, everything is very little clearance and I had to set it where the range of motion will clear at any height. If I went with a stock pinion angle everything would bind up when I let the air out of the bags.
I guess I'll just have to see what happens after I get the engine and trans installed.
My pinion angle is set at 3*-4* negative....There is absolutely NO possible way to set it at a positive angle, without the driveshaft and yolk hitting the bottom of the cab,gas tank crossmember,upperlink bar...etc.
TurboS10....you should see this setup in person...there is virtually NO side to side movement or articulation to the rearend. The bars are HUGE and the rod-end threads are literally larger than most of the BARS that I have seen.
Later,
WEIMER
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Old 03-14-2004, 06:23 PM
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your going to have to set the tail shaft at 3 or 4* pos angle then
are you going to have room in the tranny tunnel?
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Old 03-14-2004, 06:58 PM
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Its going to be easier to set the tailshaft. I am going to have to slice/dice up the cab floor for my bodydrop anyways, so I can actually make as much room as I need. I also have to notch the back of the cab just a scosche to clear the drive shaft when the truck is completely laid out on the ground. I am going to build a new trans crossmember also so I can build it accordingly to set the angle of the trans.
I could've took the easy way out and not body dropped it...but who would want to that . I guess I like not being like everyone else
Later,
WEIMER
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Old 03-15-2004, 06:57 AM
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I think you are right on with the pinion angle. I would set it to the center height and adjust the pinion angle where it is 0 at that point. Then you will have the minimum difference at lowest and highest setting.

After looking at the three link again I can see where it would not want to squat on one side. Yours does not look to have rod ends on the top link but rather bolts with bushings. If they are rubber or urethane it will still squat a little on one side, but if they are solid I dont guess they can. If they are solid it looks to me like uneven ground would put alot of stress on the links and bracket so I will bet they are urethane...


Chris
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Old 03-15-2004, 08:29 AM
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Yep...They are urethane bushings.One thing that I was wondering...I wonder if I can drill and tap the bushings for a grease zerk or if it would even be necessary.
Later,
WEIMER
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Old 03-15-2004, 11:42 PM
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I use the 4-link you have on all my installs and grease fittings are not nessesary. I suppose they could be installed but I don't think you would notice any diffrence. If you haven't installed it yet here are a few pointers to reduce the amount of pinion angle change nessasary on a street driven vehicle with an adjustable suspension. First make the bars eaqual length (top and bottom) not so much both the same but both connect to the frame in the relativly same distance from the axle, the top bars will be slightly longer due to the fact that they are on an angle. Next have the upper and lower bars on the same plane as each other. These are the things that I have found to reduce pinion angle change. Hope it helps.
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