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Old 05-12-2013, 05:46 PM
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301 to 400 poncho what ALL is needed

im looking at a 79 trans am with a 301 it turbo 350 ,shaker and all that it a all factory stock car with 45000 on it. i wanna pull the 301 when i gt time and drop either 403,400,455 in it and i wanna keep the shaker



what all will i have to change to make it work



i plan to buy a engine with as many accessories on it as possible

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Old 05-12-2013, 05:52 PM
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Buying an engine with all the accesories is a good way to start.
Be sure you get a motor from a 70-77 as they will have the correct motor mount bosses for an F body.an earlier or later engine may not have the correct mounting holes (bosses) on the engine block to mount the engine.
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Old 05-12-2013, 06:10 PM
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Problem will be the exhaust. The model you have used a cat converter in the exhaust crossover.The turbo exhaust wont fit, at least the front half wont fit.
Get the crossover from the donor and split it into duals...
Fab a crossover (H orX) into the system.
As far as the shaker, NA setups are available . I see them on Flea bay all the time.I am sure the turbo setup is way different.
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Old 05-12-2013, 07:38 PM
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oh this car is NA it never had the turbo until 80 its a 79 . but yea i read exhaust and the block would be a issue
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Old 05-12-2013, 07:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LATECH View Post
Problem will be the exhaust. The model you have used a cat converter in the exhaust crossover.The turbo exhaust wont fit, at least the front half wont fit.
Get the crossover from the donor and split it into duals...
Fab a crossover (H orX) into the system.
As far as the shaker, NA setups are available . I see them on Flea bay all the time.I am sure the turbo setup is way different.
I think the o/p said he had a 301 with th350 (turbo350)

none of the t/a had duals, it was a single into a muffler with dual tailpipes, I'd keep that, but updated with a smooth "y" into a 3" single..
the 3rd gen guys have found it's a better set up than true duals under these cars as the lack of room,
the shacker you'll need the correct intake.. or one close to it's height.. or mod the works..
iirc 1979 was the last real t/a with a 400..
iirc the motor mount bosses are there on all 400's but not drilled on some..
might be wrong, but

the 301 as front dress brackets, for ac,ps,alt can be used, but you'll have to fab and mod them.. can't remember what exactly I did when I put the 400 in my turbo t/a I'm sure some butchery was involved..
but if you can get a fully dressed 400 you'll be better off..

I used a mickey mouse exhaust set up. as I kept the turbo

good luck..

today if I found a t/a I'd build another turbo t/a with a poncho 326 and efi turbo..
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Old 05-12-2013, 07:46 PM
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Non turbo makes it a lot easier.
Just check to be sure the block has the correct bosses for the mounts.
I think you will need different mounts , but they are easily available for the larger CID in an F body.
The shaker should still fit. Intake height may be slightly different, but can be adjusted with spacers. Should be a nut and bolt swap.
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Old 05-13-2013, 01:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by strokermax View Post
im looking at a 79 trans am with a 301 it turbo 350 ,shaker and all that it a all factory stock car with 45000 on it. i wanna pull the 301 when i gt time and drop either 403,400,455 in it and i wanna keep the shaker



what all will i have to change to make it work



i plan to buy a engine with as many accessories on it as possible
First, good man! You've avoided the dreaded "swap in a SBC" cure-all, and I personally thank you! Granted, GM did use the SBC and Olds 403, but I still think a Pontiac car deserves a Pontiac engine. Even the Olds would be better than a SBC IMHO- in stock/mildly modified form, the 403 is a good engine.

I'd advise you to go w/the Pontiac 400/455. These second gen F-bodies often had very high gears (lower numerically). If it's a TA it should have a posi. If you're on a budget, the 455 would make a better engine for use w/the high gears.

1970 through '76 Pontiac blocks had 5 motor mount bolt holes per side and will fit into any Pontiac (A, B, F, etc.), later engines will still work in a F-body. Earlier blocks require brackets to work in a F-body. Engines before around '64 don't have provisions to mount the starter to the block so should be avoided. 455, 400, and 301 Pontiac F-body engine brackets from 1975-1981 will work, get new rubber mounts- that'll give a bit more header clearance than sagged out used mounts.

The 301 has a shorter deck height. I think the pulleys from the 301 will work on the bigger Pontiac engines, but brackets for AC, etc. may give you trouble. If possible, get an engine w/the brackets on it.

There are differences in the shaker setup between the 301 and the 400/455 that will make using it something less than plug-and-play. Even if you have the right shaker, using a highrise intake will give trouble. There are parts available to use the RPM intake w/the factory shaker, but they're spendy.

There are other differences (early to later intakes/heat crossovers, valve angles and other odds and ends), so if you want to mix 'n match parts be sure they're compatible. This barely scratches the surface, but some info/links (links fixed), etc. that may help fill in the gaps:

Pontiac info/sites
Pontiac engine info

Last edited by cobalt327; 05-13-2013 at 02:10 PM.
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Old 05-13-2013, 02:38 PM
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It has been "said" the mounts and brackets for A/C, P/S and the alternator are pretty much the same, 301 and 400, with the latter needing longer belts. I've never actually done that. A "donor" car with the 400 and all brackets ('76-'79) would be preferable. The "big car" stuff will work fine, as will the A-body parts through '77.

The motor mount issue is that your car requires 3 mounting holes in the block, two "down low" and one "up high". As cobalt said, '70-'76 have all five (pre-70 and some later use only two, a different two). Actually, late '75 is the last of the "988" blocks I recall before they returned in '78. That's the last three digits of the casting number, found near the bellhousing flange. The "557" is the weaker "late" block, but has all the correct holes for your car. The 301 "shells" will fit the 400 blocks. If your power requirements are relatively mild (under 450HP), the 557 blocks are cheap and easy to find. Not much "room to grow", though, as they're too light for higher power levels.

There are a few other variations to be aware of, but finding the right block with all the mounting "goodies" is a good thing. Heads will be the next question. If you find a complete engine for a decent price, the heads may or may not be suited to your use, but it's a place to start.

400 blocks are tougher than 455 blocks, too. A properly built 455 can be very potent, but there are advantages to starting with the 400. Jim Hand's "How to Build Max-performance Pontiac V8s" published by SA Designs in 2004, is a good discussion of the Pontiac as a powerful pump-gas street engine. I haven't read the "re-write".

Jim
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Old 05-13-2013, 03:06 PM
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I didn't know there was a revision. I'll have to see what's up w/that, thanks.
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Old 06-03-2013, 04:24 PM
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guy has a 400 poncho with a turbo 350 for sale 900 bucks it was in a 81 trans am so im hoping i luck out and it has all the stuff.

is 900 bucks a good deal for both?

i plan to make 300-400 horses at the wheels

yes this car will not be chevy powered
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Old 06-03-2013, 08:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by strokermax View Post
guy has a 400 poncho with a turbo 350 for sale 900 bucks it was in a 81 trans am so im hoping i luck out and it has all the stuff.

is 900 bucks a good deal for both?

i plan to make 300-400 horses at the wheels

yes this car will not be chevy powered
That's high unless it runs very good and has low miles, and/or is loaded w/goodies. No way I'd personally pay that much unless I could hear it run, and hopefully drive the car to check the engine and trans out real good. Then I'd offer what I thought it was worth.

BTW, the 400 wasn't used in '81 so it would be a real good idea to run all the numbers on it.

Good luck.
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