302 vs 302? - Hot Rod Forum : Hotrodders Bulletin Board
Hotrodders.com -- Hot Rod Forum



Register FAQ Search Today's Posts Unanswered Posts Auto Escrow Insurance Auto Loans
Hot Rod Forum : Hotrodders Bulletin Board > Tech Help> General Rodding Tech
User Name
Password
lost password?   |   register now

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
  #1 (permalink)  
Old 09-07-2010, 05:38 AM
TroyBoy's Avatar
Psychomotors
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: East Bonne Terre ,Missouri
Age: 49
Posts: 675
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 14
Thanked 9 Times in 8 Posts
302 vs 302?

Okay,all I hear is how a 302 Chevy is no good,blah,blah,blah.I'm a Chevy guy so...I have a 97 Mercury Mountaineer with a 302 thats will flat out haul a**. How come they have the same bore and stroke but everyone hates the Chevy and praises the Ford????It's something that has nagged me for years.

    Advertisement
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
  #2 (permalink)  
Old 09-07-2010, 06:34 AM
Registered User
 
Last photo:
Join Date: May 2009
Location: S/E Michigan
Posts: 653
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 9 Times in 9 Posts
Its the 307 and the 305 Chevy that dont make very good performance engines. The Chevy 302 was only offered in the 67-69 Z-28's and was designed for Trans-Am(road) racing. Advertised HP was 290, but it made well over that, and was a race winner right from the start. Gears, Headers, the factory Cross-ram intake all made this motor a real screamer.
But the only reason now-a-days to run a Chevy 302 would be because of rules restrictions on Cubic inches. If rules dont require a specific cubic inch, you should run the largest cubic inch motor you can afford.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #3 (permalink)  
Old 09-07-2010, 06:48 AM
Member
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Missouri
Posts: 466
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by TroyBoy
Okay,all I hear is how a 302 Chevy is no good,blah,blah,blah.I'm a Chevy guy so...I have a 97 Mercury Mountaineer with a 302 thats will flat out haul a**. How come they have the same bore and stroke but everyone hates the Chevy and praises the Ford????It's something that has nagged me for years.

I'm not sure who you've talked to but most people will take the chevy over the ford... Chevy 302s aren't often done because a 350 is easier to come by and bigger, 302 Fords are done a lot because they are easier to find engines and parts for than 351s.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #4 (permalink)  
Old 09-07-2010, 06:58 AM
poncho62's Avatar
Out of the Loop Moderator
 
Last wiki edit: Streetbeasts links
Last journal entry: at car show
Last photo:
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Hanover, Ontario, Canada
Age: 62
Posts: 16,864
Wiki Edits: 5

Thanks: 20
Thanked 250 Times in 203 Posts
Applea and oranges......The 302 Chevy was a special built engine basically for trans am racing........they had to build a street version to be legal.....

the 302 Ford was a mass production engine, built for years in pretty much everything Ford produced.......

The Chevy 302 would way out perform a stock Ford 302.....

Now, if you really wanted to compare, you would have to compare the Chevy 302 to the Ford Boss 302.........both low production, hi perf engines.............
__________________
Ontario Rodders

Budget RVs
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #5 (permalink)  
Old 09-07-2010, 07:12 AM
cobalt327's Avatar
WFO
 
Last wiki edit: Intake manifold
Last journal entry: 1980 Malibu Wagon
Last photo:
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Atlanta
Age: 59
Posts: 5,037
Wiki Edits: 1616

Thanks: 128
Thanked 597 Times in 546 Posts
The Ford 302 uses a 5.09" con rod. Still has a 1.7 rod/stroke ratio. The SBC 302 sports a 1.9 ratio- some would say that's too much, the "ideal" HP ratio being ~1.8.

So I guess the 302 SBC rod needs to be 5.4"- the same as a lot of Ford 302 aftermarket rotators use. Or not.

No one I know bad mouths the SBC 302. Actually, it's an icon. The little Ford 5.0L is also a good engine, it was used so extensively that they're easily found for cheap and can be made to run real good- as a 302 OR a 347.

The short 8.206" deck height of the 289/302 is a selling point in some applications- it will fit into engine bays like the MG, AC Ace, etc..
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #6 (permalink)  
Old 09-07-2010, 08:19 AM
TroyBoy's Avatar
Psychomotors
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: East Bonne Terre ,Missouri
Age: 49
Posts: 675
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 14
Thanked 9 Times in 8 Posts
Actually what I was getting at is I wonder why Gm didn't de-tune it and use it as their economy engine.I still think the 307 with the right parts was a good engine also.Its just that everytime someone on here starts talking about building a Chevy 302 they are bashed.I don't know what they want from the engine,but if you wanted to build one for economy with FI it would'nt be too bad.My Mercury doesn't RPM worth a crap as far as a high RPM engine is supposed to do but it does take off well with its 3.73 gears and gets decent MPG with the OD. I'm not looking to build anything, just wanted some honest debate.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #7 (permalink)  
Old 09-07-2010, 08:27 AM
curtis73's Avatar
Hates: Liver. Loves: Diesel
 
Last wiki edit: How to find cheap parts
Last journal entry: 1999-2001: Getting it on the road
Last photo:
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Pittsburgh, PA
Age: 40
Posts: 5,128
Wiki Edits: 16

Thanks: 0
Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts
Part of the reason they didn't de-tune it for economy was market perception. No one would respect the 302 like they do if it spent three years as a super hi-po engine, then spent 20 years as a wheezy smogger.

Its like when they tried to make a high-performance version of the 305. Sure, it made 50 more HP, but its only 190 hp total.

The 302 would make a fine economy engine properly tuned, but so does a 350 and it provides gobs more torque in the process.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #8 (permalink)  
Old 09-07-2010, 08:33 AM
TroyBoy's Avatar
Psychomotors
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: East Bonne Terre ,Missouri
Age: 49
Posts: 675
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 14
Thanked 9 Times in 8 Posts
I understand your point and well said.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #9 (permalink)  
Old 09-07-2010, 08:34 AM
lg1969's Avatar
Google "Tunnel Ram 406"
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Bohemia, L.I.N.Y.
Age: 64
Posts: 1,054
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 1
Thanked 21 Times in 18 Posts
First you are comparing a stock ford 302 that made for the streets and that is torque. A boss 302 that was built the same year as the Chevy 302 had the same problem. They both ran 11:1 compression, both had big cams, both used big Holley carbs, and the boss 302 had big valve heads with the use of the tunnel port intake. The intake port flowed more air then the big blocks. They both had one Major issues, they both suffered low end torque. The standard ford 302 does not have these issues. The low end torque on a ford boss 302 was much worst because of the oversize intake ports. Chevy 302 is strickly a race motor. The boss 302 and the Z/28 302 could rev to the Moon.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #10 (permalink)  
Old 09-07-2010, 09:48 AM
TroyBoy's Avatar
Psychomotors
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: East Bonne Terre ,Missouri
Age: 49
Posts: 675
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 14
Thanked 9 Times in 8 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by lg1969
First you are comparing a stock ford 302 that made for the streets and that is torque. A boss 302 that was built the same year as the Chevy 302 had the same problem. They both ran 11:1 compression, both had big cams, both used big Holley carbs, and the boss 302 had big valve heads with the use of the tunnel port intake. The intake port flowed more air then the big blocks. They both had one Major issues, they both suffered low end torque. The standard ford 302 does not have these issues. The low end torque on a ford boss 302 was much worst because of the oversize intake ports. Chevy 302 is strickly a race motor. The boss 302 and the Z/28 302 could rev to the Moon.
So what you are saying is that a Chevy 302 with a set of Vortec heads and complimentary cam would be a good combo?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #11 (permalink)  
Old 09-07-2010, 09:54 AM
lg1969's Avatar
Google "Tunnel Ram 406"
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Bohemia, L.I.N.Y.
Age: 64
Posts: 1,054
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 1
Thanked 21 Times in 18 Posts
It will work fine. Just watch with the compression.

Last edited by lg1969; 09-07-2010 at 10:02 AM.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #12 (permalink)  
Old 09-07-2010, 09:56 AM
TroyBoy's Avatar
Psychomotors
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: East Bonne Terre ,Missouri
Age: 49
Posts: 675
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 14
Thanked 9 Times in 8 Posts
I agree
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #13 (permalink)  
Old 09-07-2010, 10:43 AM
Member
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Missouri
Posts: 466
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
The easiest way to get decent compression with that combo is to either get the pistons with the correct Vortec dome, OR use 305 Vortec heads. The 305 heads with a good valve job and some light port clean up can slow enough to support 400hp, and the smaller runners (than the 350 Vortec heads) should help low end slightly.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #14 (permalink)  
Old 09-07-2010, 11:37 AM
lg1969's Avatar
Google "Tunnel Ram 406"
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Bohemia, L.I.N.Y.
Age: 64
Posts: 1,054
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 1
Thanked 21 Times in 18 Posts
If Chevy build a street version like the ford 302. It would have similar horse power and torque as the standard ford 302. A 600cfm Holley and a smaller cam would perform better then the 780cfm Holley that was used on a chevy 302.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #15 (permalink)  
Old 09-07-2010, 12:12 PM
Duntov's Avatar
Visit the NASCAR Hall of Fame
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Near Charlotte
Posts: 411
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by lg1969
If Chevy build a street version like the ford 302. It would have similar horse power and torque as the standard ford 302. A 600cfm Holley and a smaller cam would perform better then the 780cfm Holley that was used on a chevy 302.
I think the Ford 302 factory crank is 15 or 20 pounds lighter, like 36 pounds? anyone know?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

Recent General Rodding Tech posts with photos

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now

In order to be able to post messages on the Hot Rod Forum : Hotrodders Bulletin Board forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name (usually not your first and last name), your email address and other required details in the form below.
User Name:
If you do not want to register, fill this field only and the name will be used as user name for your post.
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.
Password:
Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.
Email Address:

Log-in

Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
1967 mustang 302 conversion questions jcoby Engine 9 04-04-2009 06:22 PM
302 chevy engine mess NaythanOldskool Engine 17 12-18-2008 12:04 AM
Building A 302 Chevy Scorpio Shaping Flow Hotrodding Basics 6 01-16-2007 05:55 AM
can i destroke a 351 w with a 302 or stroke a 302 with a 351w? jims84gt350 Engine 5 04-02-2006 01:04 PM
Chevy 302 purplenova Engine 6 10-25-2002 07:26 PM


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 11:23 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0 PL2
Copyright Hotrodders.com 1999 - 2012. All Rights Reserved.