305 blues - Hot Rod Forum : Hotrodders Bulletin Board
Hotrodders.com -- Hot Rod Forum



Register FAQ Search Today's Posts Unanswered Posts Auto Escrow Insurance Auto Loans
Hot Rod Forum : Hotrodders Bulletin Board > Tech Help> Hotrodding Basics
User Name
Password
lost password?   |   register now

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
  #1 (permalink)  
Old 09-10-2004, 09:19 PM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: roseville,mi
Age: 46
Posts: 6
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
305 blues

i recently bought awhat i was lead to believe was a 5.7 350 , i tore it down and its a 305. i am going to put it in a camaro 1982.
i really was shooting for about 400 hp. any ideas on getting that out of this 305? should i stick with 300hp can it be done? Im not sure i really wanted a 350, but not sure if i should stick with this motor. anu sugestions?

    Advertisement
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
  #2 (permalink)  
Old 09-10-2004, 10:54 PM
chev38's Avatar
Member
 

Last journal entry: On the way to get worked on in KC
Last photo:
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Winfield, mo
Age: 68
Posts: 30
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
You may be able to get 300 without breaking the bank but the other 100 HP will cost a lot of money. The 82 Camaros were carburated so a good set of heads Dart or World, dual plane intake with a 600 cfm carb, headers, mild cam would get you to 300 mark. The stock heads had small valves so didn't breathe very well. A lot of air must enter the intake and get exhausted thru the valves and exhaust manifolds. That's the reasoning for the after market heads.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #3 (permalink)  
Old 09-11-2004, 06:56 PM
killerformula's Avatar
Hotrodders.com Moderator
 
Last wiki edit: Carburetor
Last journal entry: Clean up
Last photo:
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Northeast
Age: 34
Posts: 3,487
Wiki Edits: 3

Thanks: 13
Thanked 27 Times in 18 Posts
305 is not a good choice for a performance motor. You're many many many dollars ahead to get a 350. Why stop there? Do a 383 or a 400 if you're looking for a hot street motor. Cubes make all the difference, and 350's are good motors, but will never make as much power as a similarly built stroker. And for about the same money!

K
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #5 (permalink)  
Old 09-12-2004, 06:37 PM
killerformula's Avatar
Hotrodders.com Moderator
 
Last wiki edit: Carburetor
Last journal entry: Clean up
Last photo:
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Northeast
Age: 34
Posts: 3,487
Wiki Edits: 3

Thanks: 13
Thanked 27 Times in 18 Posts
My point remains.

THe first article is an almost 11:1 motor running a GIANT cam, and would be aweful to drive on the street.

Second article would have at least 50 more ponies if it was a 350.

I like this quote from the fourth article:

"Why not use a smaller cam? Lunati says it's hard to move air through a small-bore motor with a restricted valve area like the 305. You need a bigger cam to make this small cylinder work, but there are limits due to the small displacement. Fortunately, the relatively long stroke for this displacement engine helps low-end torque, so the engine isn't all that cam sensitive."

Here's another good one from the fourth article:

"Racing gas with a 108-octane level was used for all tests. This gas is not generally available for street cars. Assuming the use of 92- or 93-octane unleaded, you could get by with a true 9:1 to 9.5:1 compression ratio street motor when using cast-iron heads." SOunds great to me.

I also like how the third article motor that's only putting out 290 horse has A THOUSAND DOLLAR SET of AFR heads on it. AND ALSO PUSHES A REDICULOUS 10:1 TO GET THAT NUMBER?!!

Pathetic. Build a 350.

K

Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #6 (permalink)  
Old 09-13-2004, 08:49 AM
Member
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Nov 2002
Posts: 493
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
Remember the original question.........

Quote:
i really was shooting for about 400 hp. any ideas on getting that out of this 305?
Article number 1 shows what is needed to get 400 HP from a 305.

Quote:
THe first article is an almost 11:1 motor running a GIANT cam, and would be awful to drive on the street.
10.6-1 to be exact.....How much compression are you running?

GIANT cam? One grind bigger than the one you run........

Aweful to drive on the street?
"Everyone involved was surprised at the amount of power and the degree of driveability the package displayed."

"This may seem like a bit too much cam for a small engine, and a Victor,Jr. intake manifold also seems out of line, but the engine is really responsive to the combination."




Quote:
Second article would have at least 50 more ponies if it was a 350.
I would hope so, its a bigger motor.......


Quote:
I like this quote from the fourth article:
Quote:
"Why not use a smaller cam? Lunati says it's hard to move air through a small-bore motor with a restricted valve area like the 305. You need a bigger cam to make this small cylinder work, but there are limits due to the small displacement. Fortunately, the relatively long stroke for this displacement engine helps low-end torque, so the engine isn't all that cam sensitive."
This is probably why the first article use a big cam as well. It also says "The engine isn't all that cam sensitive"

Quote:
"Racing gas with a 108-octane level was used for all tests. This gas is not generally available for street cars. Assuming the use of 92- or 93-octane unleaded, you could get by with a true 9:1 to 9.5:1 compression ratio street motor when using cast-iron heads." SOunds great to me.
You missed this part of the quote.

"The generally accepted rule of thumb is that you lose 12 to 15 hp for each point drop in compression-- so an otherwise identical 9 1/4:1 engine would be down about 15 hp from the results reported here."

A change from the " Lunati used "generic" 305 iron cylinder heads" to a set of 350 heads like the first article used would cover the 15HP loss with ease.

Quote:
I also like how the third article motor that's only putting out 290 horse has A THOUSAND DOLLAR SET of AFR heads on it. AND ALSO PUSHES A REDICULOUS 10:1 TO GET THAT NUMBER?!!
"RHS was determined to develop a strong-running engine that's also capable of meeting late-model 50-state emissions standards while running successfully in a computer-carburetor application without any software changes, using commonly available 92-octane unleaded gas. This required using only parts classed as a "stock replacement part," or those that carry a specific California Air Ressources Board (CARB) Exemption Order (EO). An individual car builder can install or stack any number of seperate EO components on the same motor and still be smog-legal, provided the vehicle passes the sniffer test."

"RHS used the stock GM HEI distributor with advance, retard, and fuel-curve all controlled by the stock GM computer."

"With the engine installed on the dyno, the fuel curve, total timing, and timing retard under detonation were left pre-programmed with the stock GM computer chip."

WOW, This is a 50 state, smog legal motor that uses a stock GM computer, distributor, and electric carb. And it still made 290 HP. One could only imagine what it would do with an aftermarket chip that optimized the fuel and spark for performance.

The 82' Camaro that camaronewbe has, CAME with a computer controlled Q-Jet.

Quote:
i am going to put it in a camaro 1982.
Quote:
should i stick with 300hp can it be done?
Can he reach his power goals with a 305? Yes

Can he reach his goals and still be smog legal? Yes

Will a 350 make more power than a 305? I don't think anybody has ever questioned this. The 350 is bigger than a 305. A bigger motor will always make more power........

Most of these articles are quite old now. More power can be made with todays current cams, intakes, and heads. With the use of soft head technology, and a little port bias, a small bore motor can be made to run quite well..........Dan
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #7 (permalink)  
Old 09-13-2004, 09:37 AM
killerformula's Avatar
Hotrodders.com Moderator
 
Last wiki edit: Carburetor
Last journal entry: Clean up
Last photo:
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Northeast
Age: 34
Posts: 3,487
Wiki Edits: 3

Thanks: 13
Thanked 27 Times in 18 Posts
My point is bigger bore motors respond better to bolt-on upgrades than do smaller bore motors. Yes its nice that these guys were able to get some decent power out of the little 305, but to be honest, many of those motors have some BIG dollar parts on them, especially the one with the AFR heads thats only making 290 horse for the amount of dollar sunk into the heads.

I don't think you can compare my motor with those in the article. Yes it has a 280 comps (which is NOT one grind smaller than the 292, there are about 3 grinds in between) and considered the 292, but even in my motor which is 83 freaking cubes bigger than a 305, I thought it to be overboard. The high end of that cam stops at like 6500RPM on a 350, more like 6800 on a 305. Start pushing those R's and you need a forged bottom end to handle the stress. We gonna put a forged bottom in this 305 too? Tell you what man, my motor swallowed that 280 like a champ. Really streetable combo, but comparing a big bore stroker smallblock with big cubes to a 305 is like comparing apples to oranges.

Sure, you can make 400 horse with a 305. I've never seen one, and there are reasons for that, but to each his own. The general rules of hotrodding still apply though. You've fewer dollars in and more potential ahead to try to get 400 horse out of a bigger motor. Can you build a 305 to 400? I guess. Does it make sense? No. And any hotrodder worth his salt will tell you that-

I am taking the original question into account. The dude wants 400horse. I'm just saying yeah it can be done with a 305, but it can be done cheaper and with more room for expansion with a bigger cube motor.

K
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #8 (permalink)  
Old 09-14-2004, 12:32 AM
E.T. divided by $ spent= Speed
 
Last photo:
Join Date: May 2002
Location: NYS america's unwiped butt
Age: 35
Posts: 1,858
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 5 Times in 5 Posts
There was guy at the monteSS site that put Vortec's on a 305 w/ a mild cam and ran retty stout(mid 14s)for a 305.If I remember though it was gutless for torque though as 64cc heads will put you at like 7.8:1or less.
IMO I would just stick a whitebox cam,lifters and springs in w/ a new oil pump and T-chain.Maybe bowl port the heads yourself and have a valvejob done.Bolt an intake and headers on and beat it like a redheaded step child till it dies.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #9 (permalink)  
Old 09-14-2004, 12:42 AM
killerformula's Avatar
Hotrodders.com Moderator
 
Last wiki edit: Carburetor
Last journal entry: Clean up
Last photo:
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Northeast
Age: 34
Posts: 3,487
Wiki Edits: 3

Thanks: 13
Thanked 27 Times in 18 Posts
yeah, they're ok and respond to some bolt ons but not really worth the time. I speak from experience on this one and have done everything that can be done to a 305. That said, actually I was kinda impressed with how well it pulled from 2500-5500 RPM (summit cam, bigger valve late model heads etc etc). There's nothing like cubes to give you the snappy response that you want. Cubes MAKE a musclecar feel like a musclecar-

K
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #10 (permalink)  
Old 09-14-2004, 01:00 AM
E.T. divided by $ spent= Speed
 
Last photo:
Join Date: May 2002
Location: NYS america's unwiped butt
Age: 35
Posts: 1,858
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 5 Times in 5 Posts
Quote:
Originally posted by killerformula Cubes MAKE a musclecar feel like a musclecar- K
I dunno killer,you may be generaly right,but I'm sure theres a vast number of 69 302 Z28's out there that could make you eat your boot.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #11 (permalink)  
Old 09-14-2004, 08:55 AM
killerformula's Avatar
Hotrodders.com Moderator
 
Last wiki edit: Carburetor
Last journal entry: Clean up
Last photo:
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Northeast
Age: 34
Posts: 3,487
Wiki Edits: 3

Thanks: 13
Thanked 27 Times in 18 Posts
::chewing presently:: That motor was a big bore high rever though, the poor 305 is stuck with that lousy long stroke that keeps it from winding out, and those small bores that keep it from breathing deep...

k
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #12 (permalink)  
Old 09-14-2004, 05:03 PM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: roseville,mi
Age: 46
Posts: 6
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
new plan

thanks for all the info...after allot of recearch i found the vortec heads the airlift manifold and a compcam, 650 carb I should get about 340hp give or take. doing a simulation we found the horsepower really came out about 5500 rpm's. I was told if you are going to get parts like that put them on a 350....the motor cost me 200 bucks and two days to deassemble, im not feeling real good about the 305...
I really just want a crusier that will not only look good but perform a little, no track just some showing off..
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #13 (permalink)  
Old 09-14-2004, 05:12 PM
Siggy_Freud's Avatar
Hotrodders.com Moderator
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Portland, Oregon
Age: 29
Posts: 2,371
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
Doesn't seem to make much sense to build a motor for peak power at an RPM which it will rarely see. They weren't exactly meant for upper RPM's.
__________________
Bringing history and technology together.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #14 (permalink)  
Old 09-14-2004, 05:31 PM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: roseville,mi
Age: 46
Posts: 6
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
reply

thats what im told..So maybe a 350 will have to be the answer.
guess im stuck with a 305...
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #15 (permalink)  
Old 09-14-2004, 05:38 PM
Siggy_Freud's Avatar
Hotrodders.com Moderator
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Portland, Oregon
Age: 29
Posts: 2,371
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
If your after a cruiser with a little pull to it . . . it can be accomplished with the 305. Just build it up for some low end torque. That will give you a nice seat of the pants feel. Just keep in mind that if your looking to build something with an overall performance profile your going to have to do it with a larger cubed setup.

But like I said . . . a 305 can be built to accomplish what you want out of it (not 400 hp without costing your first born). Btw I consider a 400hp engine as more than something that "perform(s) a little" lol.
__________________
Bringing history and technology together.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

Recent Hotrodding Basics posts with photos

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now

In order to be able to post messages on the Hot Rod Forum : Hotrodders Bulletin Board forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name (usually not your first and last name), your email address and other required details in the form below.
User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.
Password:
Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.
Email Address:

Log-in

Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On



All times are GMT -6. The time now is 08:30 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0 PL2
Copyright Hotrodders.com 1999 - 2012. All Rights Reserved.