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Old 02-17-2009, 08:31 PM
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305 Harmonic Balancer

Today I was finishing getting my engine ready to install into my truck (305 + TH400). When I came to the balancer, I put it on and tapped it with a rubber mallet to put it on (I guess thats how youre supposed to do it I dont know) and it wouldnt go on all the way. I hit it with a regular hammer and still didnt go on all the way. Then I pulled the balancer back off, cleaned the snout of the crank and the bore of the balancer thinking the paint on them and that it was causing me problems. Nope. I got pissed at it and got it started on there and then beat the **** (enter favorite 4 letter "F" word in place of the stars) with the hammer. Come to find out it WAS all the way down. For some reason you could still see some of the shiny part of the rear of the balancer (that fits in the seal on the timing cover) but upon removal again i could see that it had been riding in that spot before because of a SLIGHT groove the seal had worn and kept polished on the balancer. So anyways, with all the beating and pulling the balancer back off a few times i messed up the threads that hold the pulley on the balancer. I can probably clean those up with a tap and maybe install some slightly longer bolts . But i beat the balancer up pretty good on the face (see the pics, it was all red earlier today, but i beat it so much most of the paint came off and you can see where i banged up the steel the crazy thing is made from). Other pictures are of the engine. VERY (ford) red huh? Anyways I dont want to get a new balancer but if you guys think i should then i better. What do you think? Will it be ok or should I fork out the $75 to get a new one? (I REALLY dont want to!) And if i do get a new one will that screw up the balance of the engine? Its been rebuilt and hopefully it was balanced when it was built, but it would be balanced to the old balancer. Dont know if the new one will change that balance or not.
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Old 02-17-2009, 08:43 PM
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First you never ever use a hammer to install a balancer. Get a new one, then borrow the installer tool from Advance Auto.
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Old 02-17-2009, 08:47 PM
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No advance auto here. Does autozone loan them? With me hitting on that thing like I did would it have hurt the crank timing gear or the crankshaft itself? Surely they are tougher than that.... Would the crank gear have gotten pushed in further or anything like that? Everything seems fine I am just being cautious and asking questions before I get the engine in the truck and realize I goofed up.
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Old 02-17-2009, 08:52 PM
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I hate to say this but you may have done more damage than you know!
There is a tool to reinstall balancers. I once had a buddy put one back on for me (he said he knew how). He also beat it on with a hammer. After running one race the motor started to knock and by the end of the 15 lap feature the motor grenaded. I had two rods two pistons a wrist pin and a portion of the cam in the pan along with an extra 3 gallons of antifreeze. Apparently it messed up the bearings on the crank and rods from pounding on it so hard. I finally got him to admit he did not use the tool I left sitting on top of the balancer.

I don't know what the other guys will tell you, but if you got the time I'd go back through and check out the bearings. That is what I would do.
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Old 02-17-2009, 08:53 PM
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Hi,
Apparently you have no idea of the amount of damage you may have don to your engine, you know the balancer goes on the crankshaft that is held in place with the emphases of stress being up & down, not sideways, have you checked the cranks end play after beating it up? There is a tool for removing & installing the balancer, as for the balancer, I just don't know,I would probably get a new one, of course it's entirely passable you didn't do any damage, but I think I'd open it up & check.
Rich
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Old 02-17-2009, 09:02 PM
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I agree. You should check the crank endplay & bearings/thrust bearing.
Most parts stores have the remover/installer tools. AutoZone, Oriellys, Napa etc..
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Old 02-17-2009, 09:15 PM
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Whoops! Guess I ****ed up big time. To check the bearing and end play, I measure between the side of the crank and the thrust bearing, and then pry it forwards and measure the distance again (with a feeler gauge), correct? If it is out of spec, I have messed up a bearing?
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Old 02-17-2009, 09:18 PM
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Yep

Well you know what they say live and learn, I did.
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Old 02-17-2009, 09:24 PM
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Yep. Do I need to remove the rod and main caps to check the bearings too, or just pry forward and backwards to check the end play? Is it possible I could have pushed the crank timing gear back further on the crank or is there a lip behind it that stops that? Been a while since I had an SBC apart.
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Old 02-17-2009, 09:33 PM
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I believe there is a shoulder that the timing sprocket sits against. I don't know about properly checking all the bearings either I leave my assemblies up to my veteran builder. I just do the assembling of everything but the rotating assembly. Sorry I just know from experience what you did was not good for it.
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Old 02-17-2009, 09:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Crazy Fast on Ice
I believe there is a shoulder that the timing sprocket sits against. I don't know about properly checking all the bearings either I leave my assemblies up to my veteran builder. I just do the assembling of everything but the rotating assembly. Sorry I just know from experience what you did was not good for it.
Yeah that's about like me. I do heads, intakes, distributors, etc. Ive replaced a rod bearing before and a timing set and oil pump/pan but that's it. I need to learn tho, because I have a 454 I am going to rebuild and I cant afford to blow it up by doing something wrong.
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Old 02-17-2009, 11:05 PM
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If i have messed up and there is too much end play, the only way to fix that is with new bearings correct? How do i check the rest of the bearings, just look them over to see if they are out of place or hammered up, or do i have to take the caps off remove the bearings to inspect them?
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Old 02-18-2009, 02:03 AM
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Crankshaft end play is a bit over .007 but a .008 feel gauge will not fit all the way down. It goes in about half as far as the .007. My chiltons says .002 to .006 is spec. It says if it is out of spec that thrust washers need to be added. What are these? Where do they go and where do i get them? Is .001 out of spec even worth messing with ?? Anything else i should check while the pan is off?
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Old 02-18-2009, 02:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Torque454
Crankshaft end play is a bit over .007 but a .008 feel gauge will not fit all the way down. It goes in about half as far as the .007. My chiltons says .002 to .006 is spec. It says if it is out of spec that thrust washers need to be added. What are these? Where do they go and where do i get them? Is .001 out of spec even worth messing with ?? Anything else i should check while the pan is off?
That should be good. You may want to take a rubber mallet and wack the rear of the crank to reset the thrust bearing since you banged it so hard from the front & recheck. It wouldn't hurt to pop the main caps & look over the other bearings too.
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Old 02-18-2009, 02:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SSedan64
That should be good. You may want to take a rubber mallet and wack the rear of the crank to reset the thrust bearing since you banged it so hard from the front & recheck. It wouldn't hurt to pop the main caps & look over the other bearings too.
Engine is on the stand cant really whack it unless i take it off the stand and hang it on the hoist. Not sure how good of an idea that is. lol. I pried the crank all the way back and then all the way forwards to measure the end play. Would that help reset it? Or should i just give it a whack before I put it in the truck? Wouldnt be able to check the clearance then, tho.
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