305 TPI swap to a '76 350, can it be done? - Hot Rod Forum : Hotrodders Bulletin Board
Hotrodders.com -- Hot Rod Forum



Register FAQ Search Today's Posts Unanswered Posts Auto Escrow Insurance Auto Loans
Hot Rod Forum : Hotrodders Bulletin Board > Tech Help> Engine
User Name
Password
lost password?   |   register now

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
  #1 (permalink)  
Old 12-11-2004, 12:07 AM
70bird's Avatar
Smile if you know Jesus
 

Last journal entry: Waiting for a tranny
Last photo:
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Bakersfield, Ca
Age: 37
Posts: 516
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
305 TPI swap to a '76 350, can it be done?

I have a friend that has a 91 Camaro RS (305 w/180,000 miles, running, trans slips in 3rd and od, needs rebuild). She said I could have it for $500. For that $$$ I'm thinking of buying it and parting it out. I figure if I have the trans rebuilt, I'd just brake even selling it. I haven't seen it yet. It's supposed to be in OK condition and interior nice other that the drive seat.

I'd like to get a little better gas milage from my 76 Blazer 4x4 and I am sure the TPI would help. Will the TPI system bolt up to my 350. The engine is stock other than a 204/214 duration (@.05) .42/.442 lift 112 degree Summit truck cam. I'd use the accessory set up from the 305.

Will the TPI computer calibration be enough to handle a 5000lb vehicle?

Any insight would be greatly appreciated.

    Advertisement
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
  #2 (permalink)  
Old 12-11-2004, 07:09 AM
DoubleVision's Avatar
Not Considered a Senior Member
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Heart Of Dixie
Age: 40
Posts: 10,654
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 15
Thanked 58 Times in 55 Posts
The TPI would be a nice addition to your vehicle due to the increase of low end torque which is good for any heavy vehicle, but there will be some changes you`ll have to make, fuel pump, wiring, etc. You`ll also need the four center intake bolt holes slotted to fit on your older heads. with a computer for a 350 TPI, it still won`t like your cam. I would get with Siggy Frued on this site, he seems to be one of the Injection guys. He can likely tell you what you`ll need to do to make it work.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #3 (permalink)  
Old 12-11-2004, 09:01 AM
edge's Avatar
Time is short, are you ready?
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: South Carolina
Age: 45
Posts: 658
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
Quote:
Originally posted by DoubleVision
The TPI would be a nice addition to your vehicle due to the increase of low end torque which is good for any heavy vehicle, but there will be some changes you`ll have to make, fuel pump, wiring, etc. You`ll also need the four center intake bolt holes slotted to fit on your older heads. with a computer for a 350 TPI, it still won`t like your cam. I would get with Siggy Frued on this site, he seems to be one of the Injection guys. He can likely tell you what you`ll need to do to make it work.
I concur! Especially with the comment regarding Siggy. For a young man, he certainly knows his TPI systems.

I will add that since it is a 91', it is a Speed-Density system and will definitely require a chip change no matter what you do as far as cubic inches, cam, etc. According TPIS' Insider Hints handbook, they have produced up to 350 HP using 305 injectors and 450 HP using 350 injectors. That being said, I think your mild build could probably use the 305 injectors with increased fuel pressure.

I would recommend buying the TPIS handbook. If you don't want to gut the Camaro's harness and computer, you could always get a new computer, chip and harness from an aftermarket source. I will be swapping the 350 TPI unit from my 91' GTA to my 350 94' Suburban. I bought the computer, chip and harness from Street & Performance. For an extra $50, you can get a waterproof computer that can mount under the hood. This is what I did.

I am sure Siggy will chime in with a little more detail. I will encourage the swap. Computer controlled engines are not hard to work on and having that turn of the key smooth running engine during the winter time is awesome. Good luck, Ed www.edgesz28.com
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #4 (permalink)  
Old 12-11-2004, 10:55 PM
70bird's Avatar
Smile if you know Jesus
 

Last journal entry: Waiting for a tranny
Last photo:
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Bakersfield, Ca
Age: 37
Posts: 516
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Edge

How much did you spend on the computer, chip and harness from
Street & Performance?

What are you doing about the kick down for the trans? Have you seen a kit for that?

What would be a reasonable price to ask for the used 305 in the paper?


I saw the Camaro today. The body's in good condition, the interior is shot other than the passanger seat. I fugure the T-tops may bring in a couple bucks on Ebay.

Last edited by 70bird; 12-11-2004 at 11:06 PM.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #5 (permalink)  
Old 12-12-2004, 12:05 PM
edge's Avatar
Time is short, are you ready?
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: South Carolina
Age: 45
Posts: 658
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
How Much?

How much did you spend on the computer, chip and harness from Street & Performance?

$545 - TPI harness with 4L60E jumpers
$139 - Computer
$50 - Upgrade to weatherproof
$198 - Chip
$46 - TPI knock sensor
$50 - K&N air cleaner (type that attaches directly to TB)
$18 - 16MM x #6 AN fitting (supply side)
$18 - 14MM x #6 AN fitting (return side)
$18 - 89' up throttle cable for TPI
$25 - Shipping & Handling
$1,107 - TOTAL

For a serpentine belt system, you will need some brackets off a V8 Camaro/Firebird. This spreads for the TB clearance in the front. You could use the brackets and accessories off the Camaro. If you buy these new they are $385 at S&P (without accessories).

I also sent my original injectors to S&P for a good cleaning and balance job. The cost is $120 and also includes new "O" rings and filter screens. And of course you will need to plan on $35 for new intake gaskets, lower tube gaskets and upper tube gaskets. I also bought an "O" ring kit for the tubes that connect the fuel rails which is $16.

Do some more homework about using the 305 injectors on your proposed 350 application. I think with increased fuel pressure, they will work. An adjustable fuel pressure regulator for a TPI is about $60-$70 and easy to use. Check with S&P on this one.

You can reuse the distributor and coil from the Camaro. The harness I purchased accomodates either large or small cap HEI that uses a Hall Effect Sensor, but your 91' should be the small cap with remote coil.

What are you doing about the kick down for the trans? Have you seen a kit for that?

I do not have to worry about that because I have a 4L60E. But the lock-up for the Camaro's 700R4 would be controlled by the new computer, chip and harness. S&P can accomodate that function for you. You could reuse the existing 700R4 cable from the Camaro. The S&P harness will also come with a VSS that will also accomodate a manual speedometer cable.

What would be a reasonable price to ask for the used 305 in the paper?

I do not know, but I would think $500 for everything, including the Camaro's original harness, computer and sensors.

More things to consider:
You will need to install a high pressure pump with a return line to the tank. I would recommend that you follow the installation guidelines that Edelbrock publishes for their Pro-Flo fuel injection. The have it on line in a Acrobat Adobe format here.. The fuel pump is mounted externally and you can get it locally at Carquest (part #E8248). You can reuse the original supply fuel line as the return (but modify how it enters the tank - See Edelbrock instructions). Then use the original pickup (with a new sock!) and run a new 3/8" line with either hard tubing or use the fuel injection hose which is readily available at Pep Boys. But it is fairly expensive, like $1.50 a foot! You will need a high pressure fuel filter. I use one for a 91' GTA. Since it has female inlet and outlet ends, I used some AN type brass fittings from Lowes to adapt the high pressure hose to the filter. If you closely in this picture, you can see the filter in my Camaro - under my hood near the battery.

I think a TPI in a truck will be an awesome addition. If you plan it out properly (which you obviously are), things will go fairly smoothly. Good luck, Ed www.edgesz28.com

EDIT NOTE: Make sure you PM "trees" if he doesn't see this thread. He did an older conversion and reported good results. I can't remember the specifics, but a search may find it.
_______________________________
Who is Jesus?

Last edited by edge; 12-12-2004 at 12:21 PM.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #6 (permalink)  
Old 12-12-2004, 11:31 PM
Siggy_Freud's Avatar
Hotrodders.com Moderator
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Portland, Oregon
Age: 29
Posts: 2,371
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
PM sent. I hope I didnt miss too many things lol. Its somewhat late. If you have more ?'s feel free to ask away.

I agree that a TPI in a truck would be awesome. I put one in my 66 GMC 3/4 ton and it works great. Just finished installing some Trickflow heads and boy did that really pep things up quite a lot. Now I just need to ditch the stock manifold and runners to let these new heads breathe .
__________________
Bringing history and technology together.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #7 (permalink)  
Old 12-14-2004, 06:43 PM
edge's Avatar
Time is short, are you ready?
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: South Carolina
Age: 45
Posts: 658
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
Where are you trees?

I just saw that trees is logged in.

I had another thought, you could probably reuse the existing Camaro computer and get a Painless harness or S&P harness to work with that particular computer. But you will still need a new chip. Ed.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #8 (permalink)  
Old 12-14-2004, 10:32 PM
Siggy_Freud's Avatar
Hotrodders.com Moderator
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Portland, Oregon
Age: 29
Posts: 2,371
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
It would be so much easier using an aftermarket harness. I tried using a stock harness and go very tired of discolored wires and lost grounds. The aftermarket harnesses run all the groups to one ring terminal which makes it very nice .
__________________
Bringing history and technology together.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #9 (permalink)  
Old 12-15-2004, 02:05 AM
70bird's Avatar
Smile if you know Jesus
 

Last journal entry: Waiting for a tranny
Last photo:
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Bakersfield, Ca
Age: 37
Posts: 516
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
I think I'll go with the Painless through
Summit. $200 isn't that bad. It will save me from a lot of frustration and swearing.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #10 (permalink)  
Old 12-21-2004, 09:30 PM
edge's Avatar
Time is short, are you ready?
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: South Carolina
Age: 45
Posts: 658
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
I will be documenting my TPI swap

Just wanted to let everyone know that I will be documenting my the TPI conversion with my 1994 5.7L Suburban. I have started the pages, but they will not be complete until it is done, hopefully by the end of December. After tomorrow, I will be off until Jan 3rd, so I should have plenty of time, between all the normal stuff you do at this time of the year. So far everything seems pretty straightforward, so I hope to report little problems and great success. Ed. www.edgesz28.com
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #11 (permalink)  
Old 12-21-2004, 11:14 PM
Siggy_Freud's Avatar
Hotrodders.com Moderator
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Portland, Oregon
Age: 29
Posts: 2,371
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
Good luck my friend. Let me know how it goes. You've helped me with my TPI stuff on a number of occasions so let me know if there is anything I can do.

BTW what type of TPI setup are you using and from what year?

Edit*: Just checked the webpage. Let me know how you like the speed density setup.

Dylan.
__________________
Bringing history and technology together.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #12 (permalink)  
Old 12-21-2004, 11:35 PM
70bird's Avatar
Smile if you know Jesus
 

Last journal entry: Waiting for a tranny
Last photo:
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Bakersfield, Ca
Age: 37
Posts: 516
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
What are the advantages/disadvantages/difference of/between speed density and mass air?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #13 (permalink)  
Old 12-22-2004, 12:39 AM
Siggy_Freud's Avatar
Hotrodders.com Moderator
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Portland, Oregon
Age: 29
Posts: 2,371
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
Opinions vary on that subject. Nowdays, many cars use both. A mass airflow type setup directly measures the amount of incoming air (in grams per second) whereas a speed denisty calculates air based on manifold pressure.

TPIS claims MAF systems to be a bit better stock due to a more precise calculation of air. Its hard to tell as if this was true why did they goto a speed density? However since they went back to a MAF and included the speed density, it only adds to the question of which is truly better.

Some advantages of a speed density are that you can simply slap an air filter on the throttle body and be done with that part. No ducting work for a MAF sensor. Makes it nice for custom projects and those with limited space.

Speed density also seem better for Turbo and Supercharging applications as the MAP sensor is already calculating fuel and timing based on manifold pressure.

I am sure some other FI guys will elaborate more. I am too tired to begin thinking .
__________________
Bringing history and technology together.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

Recent Engine posts with photos

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now

In order to be able to post messages on the Hot Rod Forum : Hotrodders Bulletin Board forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name (usually not your first and last name), your email address and other required details in the form below.
User Name:
If you do not want to register, fill this field only and the name will be used as user name for your post.
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.
Password:
Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.
Email Address:

Log-in

Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On



All times are GMT -6. The time now is 11:07 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0 PL2
Copyright Hotrodders.com 1999 - 2012. All Rights Reserved.