just picked up a 66 or 67 327 small journal. paid $300. bucks for it. I'm planning on building this to sort of match the 327, 365hp motor i had in my corvette back in high school. i'll be sending the block out to get cleaned and bored 30 over, decks checked and align honed, then bring it back and do some grinding and smoothing and painting.
Not sure what crank, rods, pistons or cam i should use. I have a new 650 holley 4150 carb and a set of older double hump heads already using 202, 194 valves. If anybody has built a motor like this and is happy with let me know what internals you used. I hope to finish it by fall depending on cost. thanks p
I am in process of building a 327 but much different than yours. You can use that 327 crank as it is probably forged. Get it polished measured. Scat makes some nice rods for the small journal, good up to about 500 hp.You can use those double humps for nostalgia if you like but there are many better heads on the market that will flow more air out of the box.
I used a 6.25 rod and coupled it with a .030 forged 350 piston, zero decked the block and added some 2.02 World Sportsman 200 cc heads. I also built this using a late model large journal block with spacer main bearings. Mike jones made me a nice solid lifter 288 duration cam. This motor going in Jersey Speed skiff so its built for RPM
Do you mean a 383 piston? I ask as a piston designed for a 383 with a 6" rod is direct fit for a 327 with 6.25" rod? A 350 piston designed for either 5.7 or 6.0 rod will stick out of of hole a bunch with a 6.25 rod in a 327.
I agree with Richiehd,dont waste any money on the hump heads. Consider a 200 cc head from profiler,a nice little solid street roller and make power to the moon. Im thinking 450-475 hp around 6800 rpm.Put a 5 speed behind that and play rocket road racer all day.
I'm not sure if you mean 2.02/1.60 valves, or if you're not sure which intake valves those heads have? If the heads still have the stock valves and seats in them, then you'll want to go with hardened seats, and stainless valves if you rebuild them. I know most will want to go to modern heads, but if you want to keep the old school look, those heads will get you to the 365 hp setup the original 327 had.
Since the question was what to do to make it like the old 327/365 hp, I'm not sure how going to a stroker engine, or later heads will get you to where you wanted to go?
i miss stated my heads, they are older 486 castings, 2.02/1.60, mainly stainless steel valves. harden seat with guide plates, I'm going to have new seats and new springs put in them. I've had them for 20years took them out of my current engine in my coupe after an update. I think the valves can be reused. I'm trying to do this without breaking the bank.
Yes, thank you, I stand corrected. It's350 piston with 6.125" . Zero decked the block. Got the scoop from guys on this hotrod site. It will be ready soon, waiting on oil pan from Charlies Oil Pans. Reasonably priced build, all things considered.
Or 186??, a common late "fuelie" head with bolt bosses on the ends for long water pump style bracketry for alternator and power steering pump mounting.
These were pretty good heads 40 some years ago. !969 327,302, and 350 heads. These casting were used on 69 Z28s.I see these have been upgraded with screw in studs. Good, also something looks out of whack with that spring on the left. Nice upgrade for that 327 but you know there are way better aftermarket heads out there!
Got some prices on the machine work for my 327 block, hope to get started next month, after talking to engine builder I plan on getting it cleaned, maga flux, check decks and bore 30over, and align hone. I also checked the crank that came with it and its small journal, 2.3/ 2.0..casting # 2680 which means its a steel crank 68-76 years.
I'm guessing its a newer crank because the engine number say its a 64-67 block, maybe just a later build. I think the crank can be cleaned it has surface rust but looks to be in good shape and that will save me some money. All i'll need it rods and pistons and a cam. got all summer to work on it.
If the crank is #3782680 it is the '62-67 original, if it is just #2680 it is a replacement over the counter or warrantee crank.
I'd look at some combo that uses longer than stock rods and a "350" or "383" piston, it will be cheaper and a whole bunch easier to find than 327 pistons, a lot more options as far as dish, flat or dome....plus it will result in an even lighter rod and piston assembly with an even higher than stock rod to stroke ratio....all good attributes when building a small engine like the 327.
Make more power, turn even more rpm if you want, and live longer. No downside to the longer rod idea.
6.125" long rod is readily available in small journal as a stock appearing "Sportsman" type rod, or a fancier fully machined H or I-beam type. Just take your pick. If you have to buy rods and pistons, it's a no-brainer.
We built a small journal 327 a while ago. Stock crank and rods w/good bolts. After market replacement dome pistons (forged).
Used a 226/234 @ .050 .548", 112 hydraulic. Roller cam and AFR 195 Eliminators fed by a rpm dual plain and 600 edelbrock 1406. Made 388 tq / 430 hp at ~6200rpm.
also, the only change i would've made to this motor would've been to run the 180cc Eliminator over the 195cc. the smaller port would've helped lower end torque and i dont think it would've choked the top end.
the heads a 65cc chamber. compression is good for pump gas.
I'm hoping my steel crank will be ok, i think it just needs cleaning and polishing. after checking pistons i will probably use KB Hypereutectic pistons, they make a 327 030 over. i figured the deck height which is 9.025sbc, 5.7 rods, half the stroke 1.650 and the CD of 1.680 should get me just below the deck height. not sure if dished or dome might be better. there are a lot of choices in pistons and types of rods to use.
I will be using a roller cam so i need to figure lift and duration to match 650 holley and dual plan manifold. i'm in no rush so got plenty of time.
I'm baffled to understand why a guy who needs to buy rods would even bother with looking at a 5.7" rod combo, when the motor could be so much better with a longer rod and light piston??
No offense intended to Ben S, but I find that build to be incredibly....average. It's basically a 365HP engine with top of the line aluminum heads, a hydro roller cam and a better than stock intake with headers....and it only picked up 65hp and was done at only 6200 rpm
There's 100 more hp and 1000+ rpm missing.
If the owner was happy then its a good build, but SportCoupe could do a lot better if he wants a truly improved version of the 365HP engine. Step into the modern world a little bit :thumbup:
just curious but what make rod and piston would give a longer stroke and still work with the 9,025 deck height? I'm open to more power but want reliability.
Eric, it's a street engine. Needs to work well on the street (traffic, heat, etc.). I'm aware that it could make more power if it were toward high/max effort output. It's not that. The build was just a nice 300 hp 327 that got good heads and a better cam. The rear gears didn't change, the stock tire size didn't change, the engine needed to be a good fit. To match a 500 hp engine to a car with that 4 speed, drive shaft, IRS and half shafts you'd have to change all of it to make it work responsibly. More money, potentially less street ability. This engine will take pump gas and as much fun or traffic that you want to throw at it.
Really, by your reasoning every build that isn't at maximum is under done. 431 hp out of an old 327 is pretty decent, especially since most '400 hp' 1st gen small blocks simply aren't making the power they claim. So yes, the engine is decent enough. It wasn't meant to be a high dollar wiz-bang street/strip deal.
Erics recommendations for better rod/piston combo is also more reliable and more economical.
ben s the 600 cfm carb is a poor choice. GM gave it a 750 cfm Q-jet and you went smaller? If you want great throttle response then build a 785 Holley hybrid(or just use a 750 HP series)
The 785 is a 650 body with an 850 base plate.I would use that carb on a 283
aand maybe a 327.
The carb is what came off the engine originally and after a rebuild snowballed into what it did $ wise we just decided to put it on there and run it. Seems to run fine. For a street car that lives under 6000 rpm I still don't see that carb really holding it back. It'll never see track time. If it comes down to it a good 650-700 carb would be put on.
My point was that you can make great power from a budget short block with a roller cam and nice heads that will work just fine on the street.
Honestly,if you think that calculation for carb size is correct then use a similar calculation to choose your heads.
A V-8 using heads with balanced 75-80% splits will make up to 2.2 horse power per cfm air flow on the intake side.So that would tell me that a ported set of 1.94s that flow 200 cfm would allow your engine to make 440 hp.
Why would you buy good quality aluminum heads? to save 40 pounds? Your heads are capable of making close to 600 hp,your carb is no where near that,very poor match. Too much head or way to small a carb!
And if your theory is even close to correct you would have to use 2 X 390 cfm carbs on a tunnel ram for your engine. That would be rediculous.
That's why I said I'd go with the 180 cc heads if I could do it over. The heads are under utilized for the application. To me it's pretty sweet that it made 431 Hp with a 1406 Edelbrock. Any more rpm and it might have valvtrain issues. Afr recommends a rev kit from 62-6400 rpm or so with a hydraulic roller. Also, if we want to swap cams and go with a bigger carb to make more power then we can. I'm not saying that it's friggin perfect but it's pretty damn good for a mild 327.
you should try an under utilized 750 double pumper on that combo you have and feel the difference from 2,000 rpm up to 6200,,,
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