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Old 10-02-2005, 05:23 PM
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327 build up using 1964 and earlier parts ONLY

whats up all? haven't been on in a LOOOONG time, been working, had no internet, and had a computer Bug!! but I am back, and here is what I am trying to do. This is for my '30 chevy.... I want to build as period perfect a motor as possible using speed parts from '64 and earlier only!!! The only new parts I am considering are: cam, lifters, bearings, and oil!!! oh yeah and late model water in the radiator. here is what I have...Block: 1964 standard bore 327, car was parked 20 yrs ago, because of a bad tranny, and the motor is PERFECT, I work at a machine shop so I had it checked, block has NO taper and is perfectly found, did a fast "light hone" on the sunnen just to freshen up the cross hatch, BUTwill bore and hone if deemed neccesary to fit other pistons as noted below. Crank:, I have both a 327 and a 283 steel, Rods: I work in the rod shop at my job... I have access to anything, but will be using the 327 rods, already shot peened, ground smooth on all sides and parting line, and reconed with new ARP bolts (whoops theres another new part!) Pistons: I have a new set of 327 forged manleys @.030 over with a dome for I believe around 11.5-12.5 comp., I also have a set of std manley "302" pistons with the same dome. Heads: I have '55 chevy 265 heads with staggered bolt holes which I would really like to use because I have a set of "real" Cal Custom" finned valve covers I want to run, other wise I have both a set of 1.94, and 2.02 camel humps all with screw in studs and guide plates. (gude plates and studs are --supposedly-- late '64 edelbrock items, I can't verify but they are from a family member who said that?!?!? Intake: edelbrock 6 duece intake with 6-94's, I plan on using just the outer 4 with plates underneath the center 2, because I belive that is just TOO much carb, BUT please correct me if I am wrong! Distributor: early '64 mallory dual point, the type that has the wires directly into the 2 piece water tight cap, NO BOOTS on the wires. Cam: I am open to what is best for this motor, I have several "huge" cams, both hyd, and solid, I am not commited yet on these, I also have roller rockers for the heads, they are old but not sure how old, but look to be very primitive in desigh, but are needle bearings in the fulcrum, and tip. Timing is an old gear drive fom a swap meet looks never used and looked extremely old.
Rear end: 3:73 gears from a '64 Impala station wagon with limited slip. Tranny: 3 speed with over-drive from a '59 impala, unless I get something better.
cam specs are: hyd#1...450 lift on ex/in , and duration @ .050 -- 215, hyd.#2...470 lift in/ex, duration @.050---224 lobe sep: 116,
solid cam is isky #202549, gotta find those specs, but i think i remember it being 547 lift but not sure!

So boys and girls steer me in the right direction here,should I build a killer 327, or use the 283 crank and 302 pistons and build a killer 302??? I am thinking it will bring back some memories of the gasser wars and such, BUT maybe not, and for info on me I am NOT normally into speed, I like to drag frame and cruise, BUT this ride needs to light up the tires (old M/T slicks) on demand!!! I know this is limited info, but I really want this to be old old old!!! technology. The fellas around me are too much into "vortec, and fast burn, and F.I.,and thats why I can't get the info I want from them. If I have to go newer on some of my parts, I will as long as they can be disguised, BUT I really don't want to do that, Think of this as a way of building YOUR motor with my money...within reason please!?!?! If I am out of line on ANYTHING!!!!...don't hesitate to let me know! I want to do this the correct old way! Thanks tremendously in advance...Ken

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Old 10-02-2005, 05:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chopperimpala
I want to build as period perfect a motor as possible using speed parts from '64 and earlier only!!!

I also have roller rockers for the heads, they are old but not sure how old, but look to be very primitive in design,

Timing is an old gear drive fom a swap meet looks never used and looked extremely old.

If I have to go newer on some of my parts, I will as long as they can be disguised
haha

Ken, everything inside the engine is disguised, no body can see it. lol and when it comes to vital internal parts I would never use them because "hey they look old." Outside visual appearance is different, that is what I would make period correct. As for building the engine, you work in a hot rod shop, you should build what you want, not what we want. 327's, 302's, 283's they're all cool in my opinion.
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Old 10-02-2005, 05:57 PM
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you know your right, after re-reading what I wrote for like the 10th time, I sill didn't convey what I was trying to say!!! What I am looking for in addition to correctness is: What is my best combo, with what I have??? the block, crank rods, pistons, heads, etc. Yes I do work at a machine shop, BUT IN ALL ACTUALLITY, I don't have much in the way of resources for my era of parts, our "core books" only go back to 1985, and all of my P.E.R.A. manuals are not much better! I know what you are saying about the disguise factor inside, hell I could build a 350 and grind off the casting numbers and NO one would know, BUT I guess I want it to be period correct... For ME... not anyone else?!?!? does that make sense???
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Old 10-02-2005, 05:59 PM
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With the right valve covers and a oil fill/breather tube in the manifold a big inch small block could fool most folks. A tri-power setup and some louvered air filter housings would be cool. If ya wanted to be serious about it a Vertex magneto, three deuces, open headers and some old style Edelbrock valve covers would rock, especially if ya used a Ford engine.

There's the problem of the later style oil filter boss on the Chevy but who looks at that anyway?

Larry
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Old 10-02-2005, 07:40 PM
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well the V/C's I have are early staggered bolt style Cal Customs with NO holes for breathers, and I have a 6 duece intake with the oil fill in the front, and as for headers I have a set of short zoomies, but don't know how good they will work. That MAG. is out of my price range, but my early mallory looks a lot like a magneto.
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Old 10-03-2005, 06:48 AM
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I would use the heads you have, but port and polish the hell out of them. I f you want to keep it streetable keep the compression at about 10.5:1 and go with the biggest cam you have (within reason, but both the ones you speced were fairly small). if you can afford it I would go with individual runners with some strombergs or deltoros, but a holley works too. It seems as if you already have an idea of what you want though. The combination sounds pretty good. Yea it won't have the highest power numbers, but if its what you want go for it. There's nothing that sounds too far out of the ordinary.
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Old 10-03-2005, 08:16 AM
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Back then the hot deal was to have a set of fuelie heads with the 2.02 intakes and ported..Cam weliked was the old isky 505 roller which is still made. and some used the 6 deuce manifold which were hard to get to run well..has to do with getting the transition to come in..the rockers sound about right and those had the remote oil filter mounted on the firewall as I remember..

Yeah those were great motors and were built with off the shelf parts as there were not the aftermarket parts available that we have today..

Now if you had a set of Howard crank and rods that would be really cool...thos may be hard to find..

sounds good to me..

OMT
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Old 10-03-2005, 03:34 PM
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They're still at it OMT, but they ain't cheap.

http://www.howardscams.com/

Larry
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Old 10-03-2005, 05:04 PM
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Here are my thoughts: I would go with the 327 to more match up with the 3.73 gears and 3 speed O/D tranny. The 302 likes the 4.55 gears better, but you might get by with such a light car. I would never bore this block until necessary!! I would look for 9.5 to 1 CR and use the 2.02 double humps which should be in the l0w 60s cc combustion chambers (port and polish as suggested). Finned aluminum Corvette valve covers are still available for about $210 a pair and would be the right tone. The Isky solid lifter sounds interesting, but you may want to compare it with the old Vette 375 HP solid lifter cam that can still be purchased new. Your Distributer sounds interesting, but if it proves to be weak, you can convert it to solid state HEI (lots of fire incognito). Finding 4 Strombergs that will work with two dummies will be a challenge as well as getting them tuned, but sounds like fun. Two 4s were around in that era, but unless you find the old Rochester 4GCs, you could get over carbed which is why 2 4s were not that popular in those days.

This sounds like an interesting project so keep us informed on how you are doing. By the way, the old stuff put out a lot of horses so don't be surprised when your little old motor in the little old Chevy smokes this late model stuff with vortec heads. Just remember, all the new technology is trying to wake up a smogged motor. Your starting base line is what the newer rodder is trying to achieve. (rattle!, clang!, bang!, wham!; the sound of incoming rocks for this statement)

Trees
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Old 10-03-2005, 05:41 PM
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Build the 327. If you have the means, install 2.02 and 1.60 valves in the heads. Use the Corvette/Z-28 solid cam (.485" intake and exhaust), lash it at .030" intake and exhaust. Use 3.90 to 4.10 gears. Buzz it to 6500. Tire burner, rpms galore.

tom
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Old 10-03-2005, 05:42 PM
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thanks for the info all, and just to re-itterate some stuff... I already have all those items...ie: the 6 duece intake and 6 "94 holleys", the finned staggered valve covers (the ONLY reason I wanted to use the '55 heads). and as far as compression, I am gonna be in the 11 or 12-1/2 to one range with the pistons I have! yeah I know todays gas sucks, but can't I use octane boost, because I want a VERY lumpy motor, that is as loud and obnoxious as possible!! no power brakes, no power steering, this is a HOT ROD, NOT a street rod, the primer and patina on it already is the only finish I want on it.
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Old 10-03-2005, 05:52 PM
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Sell the '55 heads and matching valve covers to help pay for the heads that will REALLY work.

tom
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Old 10-03-2005, 05:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by machine shop tom
Sell the '55 heads and matching valve covers to help pay for the heads that will REALLY work.

tom
I have several pairs of camels that are done and ready, I just really like the look of those V/C. but I guess I'll have to use those camel humps! I also have several sets of power pack heads too. I am able to do what ever I need to machine wise to the heads, so I just need to be "steered" in the right direction with these older parts!! Thanks TOM,......ANYONE have a set of "no name Cal Custom" valve covers they wanna sell????
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Old 10-03-2005, 09:55 PM
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here are the specs. for that solid cam I want to use...

.547 lift Int.,& 258 duration @50,... .555 lift Exh.& 263 duration @50, 106 degrees lobe center, and 547-B is the ISKY grind. Will this work for the 327 with camel hump heads??
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Old 10-04-2005, 12:07 AM
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Old school 327

I got the Cal Customs for ya!
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